|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 35 |
Exactly. And it also depends on various physical factors, which don't always depend on condition or age, but injuries or simple joint pain.
Somebody once put said, "Recoil is only temporary, but gravity is constant." They were right, but also wrong: For some people recoil is just as constant as gravity. And if they don't recognize that fact, then the accuracy, ballistic coefficient and "killing power" that's been pounded into cyberspace dirt here don't matter.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,598 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,598 Likes: 1 |
Well said. Exactly. And it also depends on various physical factors, which don't always depend on condition or age, but injuries or simple joint pain.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,256 Likes: 34
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,256 Likes: 34 |
Humans vary considerably, the reason threads like this go on and on and on and.... There are weekly meetings at the local church for "On and on and on". Sometimes the first member to speak shuts up after a few hours and another gets to talk.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
No one was arguing the effects of recoil....and how humans are different or gravity.
I was pointing out that RCamuglia's statement that weight concerns shouldn't prevent an individual who can shoot a magnum from owning one is correct.
I think Rem. 7MM Magnum sales have already answered the question on whether or not the cartridge generates too much recoil for the average shooter.
They're are certainly some that will loosen teeth and will affect almost everyone if shot enough.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,796 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,796 Likes: 2 |
I bought a 200 year Ruger 7mm Rem mag in 1976 Wow! That is one old Ruger. Got it at Doc's Gun Barn in Pocatello, ID for $175 NIB. Just shot sub MOA groups with it last week with 168 gr LRABs and 180 gr Berger Hybrids.
Last edited by WYcoyote; 05/12/14.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,958
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,958 |
The original recoil pad on my M700 ADL in 7 mm Rem Mag was a "Remington" until I took it off and on the bottom it said Pachmayer "Whiteline" on it. The rubber got old and it was hard as a rock. I jury rigged an xtra Limbsaver pad I had laying around to it for recoil testing. Major change in lowering perceived recoil. Should have done it years ago. Previously replaced the one on my M70 338 and a ss M700 300 Win Mag also. No weight gain but a lot easyer to shoot well and more comfortable to boot. MM
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,598 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,598 Likes: 1 |
I bought a 200 year Ruger 7mm Rem mag in 1976 Wow! That is one old Ruger. Got it at Doc's Gun Barn in Pocatello, ID for $175 NIB. Just shot sub MOA groups with it last week with 168 gr LRABs and 180 gr Berger Hybrids. Cool!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 191
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 191 |
The 308 is similar to the 06 with 150 grain bullets. The 7mm-08 is similar to the 7mm RM with 120 grain bullets etc. etc. blaah blaah blaah
I use the larger cases for heavier bullets. Thus if I were to shoot a Grizzly, which would I shoot a 7mm-08 or a 7mm RM? Hmmm... I'd look more at what shoots the proper bullet the best. That is I'd likely look at a heavier bullet and also a premium bullet if I were stuck with using a 7mm. And yes I'd use the 7mm RM over the 270 or the 7mm-08. If I were to go out and shoot a doe or whitetail buck, I'd shoot either. Further, I've never noticed recoil when hunting. However, I have an ultra-light 350 RM that I learned to hold differently than my other rifles and thought I'd have a permenant scarr over my right eye.
I know of some guy....
For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander away to myths.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
The 308 is similar to the 06 with 150 grain bullets. The 7mm-08 is similar to the 7mm RM with 120 grain bullets etc. etc. blaah blaah blaah
I use the larger cases for heavier bullets. Thus if I were to shoot a Grizzly, which would I shoot a 7mm-08 or a 7mm RM? Hmmm... There probably wouldn't be any difference between the two, with the same bullet, at 50yd and under. The 7/08 just might out-perform the magnum. African hunters figured out many decades ago that about 2400fps gave optimal bullet performance and penetration.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,934 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,934 Likes: 3 |
He wasn't advocating a 7.5 pound 50 BMG.
He was simply stating that you don't have to forgo having a magnum if weight is a concern.
Which is true.
A brake and a stock of proper design that fits the shooter will mitigate any increase in recoil. A comment saying that recoil doesn't matter is simply asinine. Recoil and noise are the greatest enemies of accurate shooting.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 35 |
And more shooting isn't always the "cure" for recoil sensitivity. In fact, it often causes it, even in smaller rounds.
I'm not exactly recoil sensitive, but maybe a dozen years ago went on an industry prairie dog shoot partly sponsored by a rifle company. The rifle they had us all shoot was actually designed for predator shooting, a .22-250 weighing maybe 8-1/2 pounds with scope. We got organized and out in the field by about 10 that morning, and over the rest of the day and part of the next morning I shot over 600 rounds. (I know this because I keep track of how much shooting I do on such deals by putting my empties in a duffel bag, partly because the sponsors normally let gun writers take their brass home.)
At around 9:00 of the second day I realized the .22-250 was starting to feel an awful lot like a .375 H&H every time it went off. I tried to concentrate through it, but finally realized I was toast. Luckily, the company also brought along some .22 rimfire rifles, and when I switched to one the flinch went away within a few minutes.
But it taught me an interesting lesson. Every year I shoot something of at least the recoil of a .300 Winchester Magnum around 75-100 rounds in one sitting, to test either scopes or the rifle itself. Most years I do it several times. I can do that without flinching, though am glad to get the damn job over with. But 600 rounds with a relatively light .22-250 whipped me.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,605 |
He wasn't advocating a 7.5 pound 50 BMG.
He was simply stating that you don't have to forgo having a magnum if weight is a concern.
Which is true.
A brake and a stock of proper design that fits the shooter will mitigate any increase in recoil. A comment saying that recoil doesn't matter is simply asinine. Recoil and noise are the greatest enemies of accurate shooting. i dont like starting young shooters with rounds like the 22-250....not cause they recoil to much for a few practice rounds but cause the muzzle blast is high enough it can cause a new shooter to flinch even with hearing protection....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,019 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,019 Likes: 7 |
Wow! I couldn't come near 75-100 rounds with a .300 mag. The 7mm Rem mag is at the upper end of my recoil tolerance and I'm not even good for a box of shells out of that in one sitting.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,934 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,934 Likes: 3 |
We used to have a large prairie dog town leased, something on the order of several sections of continuous dog town.
After deer hunters were done with their primary task, a trip to the big dog town was often in order. Fellows shooting through 40 rounds of 300 Weatherby was not uncommon, yet when these same fellows switched to the supplied 223 their hit count invariably went up.
I got to the point where anyone who couldn't hit the broad side of a target board during initial sight in would immediately be brought to the big dog town and handed a 223. They would start out not hitting the broad side of a mound, but eventually hit some dogs.....the unhappy looks would turn to smiles, and we would go hunting with the 223. An ethically shot deer would be the outcome. I used this method twice personally. The guys who got to this level were 300 Mag shooters, but I've seen similar patterns with 7 Mag shooters, though generally not to the same level. Either way, when a client shows up shooting a Magnum, I strap on a sidearm, because there's a good chance something will need to be run down and finished off.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,225
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,225 |
To me, most seem to be missing the advantage offered by any Magnum round. It's not about extending the range with lightweight bullets, but rather the ability to send heavier bullets downrange at the same velosity as smaller rounds.
The 7mm Magnum can send a 160 grain bullet at the same speed as a .270 Win. does with a 130 grain bullet. This becomes important when the game is larger than whitetail size. At 350-400 yards, that 30 grain advantage and harder hitting ability just can't be ignored. The .270 is great.....but it's NOT a 7 Mag. 500 yard shooting (and farther) is just not my thing.
I hate change, it's never for the better.... Grumpy Old Men The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
To me, most seem to be missing the advantage offered by any Magnum round. It's not about extending the range with lightweight bullets, but rather the ability to send heavier bullets downrange at the same velosity as smaller rounds.
The 7mm Magnum can send a 160 grain bullet at the same speed as a .270 Win. does with a 130 grain bullet. This becomes important when the game is larger than whitetail size. At 350-400 yards, that 30 grain advantage and harder hitting ability just can't be ignored. The .270 is great.....but it's NOT a 7 Mag. 500 yard shooting (and farther) is just not my thing. No, YOU miss the point entirely. Is a Lexus "better" than a toyota? Well, by most objective standards, yes. If you can't afford the damn payment ( I'll spell it for you, R-E-C-O-I-L) its a moot point.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
A 7 mag with 160 AB's adds about 125 yards to a 270 with 140 AB's. Drop and drift are close enough that if you miss with one, you'd likely miss with the other.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,571 |
We used to have a large prairie dog town leased, something on the order of several sections of continuous dog town.
After deer hunters were done with their primary task, a trip to the big dog town was often in order. Fellows shooting through 40 rounds of 300 Weatherby was not uncommon, yet when these same fellows switched to the supplied 223 their hit count invariably went up.
I got to the point where anyone who couldn't hit the broad side of a target board during initial sight in would immediately be brought to the big dog town and handed a 223. They would start out not hitting the broad side of a mound, but eventually hit some dogs.....the unhappy looks would turn to smiles, and we would go hunting with the 223. An ethically shot deer would be the outcome. I used this method twice personally. The guys who got to this level were 300 Mag shooters, but I've seen similar patterns with 7 Mag shooters, though generally not to the same level. Either way, when a client shows up shooting a Magnum, I strap on a sidearm, because there's a good chance something will need to be run down and finished off. Guys shooting a .270 never flinch though.... A 7 mag with 160 AB's adds about 125 yards to a 270 with 140 AB's. Drop and drift are close enough that if you miss with one, you'd likely miss with the other.
Reckon that depends on what's being shot at .... or what you define as 'miss' To me, most seem to be missing the advantage offered by any Magnum round. It's not about extending the range with lightweight bullets, but rather the ability to send heavier bullets downrange at the same velosity as smaller rounds.
The 7mm Magnum can send a 160 grain bullet at the same speed as a .270 Win. does with a 130 grain bullet. This becomes important when the game is larger than whitetail size. At 350-400 yards, that 30 grain advantage and harder hitting ability just can't be ignored. The .270 is great.....but it's NOT a 7 Mag. 500 yard shooting (and farther) is just not my thing. No, YOU miss the point entirely. Is a Lexus "better" than a toyota? Well, by most objective standards, yes. If you can't afford the damn payment ( I'll spell it for you, R-E-C-O-I-L) its a moot point. Yes.... it is better. More like an F-150 vs. F-250.... you can tell me 'I don't tow/haul anything.... so I don't need the extra.'..... Until you do.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,934 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,934 Likes: 3 |
All I know is that after seeing a few tons of game put on the ground, it was pretty obvious what rounds missed and/or shot the game all to schit. It wasn't the 270 and down shooters....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
We should change the topic to chainsaws. That way, instead of the "big bore, big dick theory" it would be the "big bar, big dick theory".
Like Officer Callahan said, "A man has got to know his limitations".
|
|
|
|
603 members (222Sako, 219DW, 1badf350, 160user, 22250rem, 68 invisible),
3,499
guests, and
1,257
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,751
Posts18,535,546
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|