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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,237 |
Everyone knows that whitetail and mule deer are tougher than reds.  Looks like a lot of fine eating. Bet there wasn't a lot of bloodshot meat.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,731
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,731 |
.243 was the minimum legal in North Carolina where we hunted with rifles. My Brother hunts in Maine, and it's the same there. Probably because the fish and game guys don't consider .223 effective in the hands of John Q. Public. A .22WMR is an effective deer round if you shoot every deer between the eyes. I would have to evaluate "effective" as the killing power of the round + the skill of the shooter. For anyone I know who has ever asked me for advice, I've recommended .270 up. Most of the guys have gone after other animals like black bears up in Maine and it's been taken as sound advice. I grew up with, and still use traditional lead bullets and I killed lots of deer with a .30-06 and a 165 grain Sierra Game King on top of 48 grains of IMR 4064. My Brother has killed many more, and bear with the same in his .308 Win. If I were to use this success rate as "effective" than I would say the .223 is not. Not in ordinary hands.
To add to this. As to the phrase "knock a deer down." I shot lots of deer with a bow and watched them walk or run off, slow down and fall over. I have to say that in 19 years of hunting North Carolina and shooting about 60 deer, I knocked down better than 90% of them. I shot them high in the shoulder straight up the front leg and they all go down. I used a .30-06, a .300 Win Mag and a .300 WSM with 165 grain lead core bullets. My best friend, who hunted with me all those years used a .300 Weatherby Mag and we actually had to look for some of his deer. Some of them, you could stick your arm through... but they ran. He used the same bullets in 180 grains. It's a great mystery.
"I didn't get the sophisticated gene in this family. I started the sophisticated gene in this family." Willie Robertson
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,225
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,225 |
Agree totally with rob p......it's not about what will "kill" but about what is effective and found.
Shoot what you want even up to a 20MM cannon and sometimes they will RUN. Doesn't matter that they are "dead" , it's the run that confuses things. The smaler rounds (.22-25 caliber) will "kill" just as well as any larger round....but they don't always leave a significant blood trail.
Killing an animal is different than effectively finding that same animal. In thick brush, the "finding" is the key factor. Biger bore rifles make this easier. They aren't more "dead", ju8st easier to find.
I hate change, it's never for the better.... Grumpy Old Men
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,276 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,276 Likes: 11 |
When it's windy what do you .223 guys shoot at deer?
Last edited by JGRaider; 05/16/14.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
trailed a lung shot doe into the Laredo brush once... bit over a 400 yard shot wiht a 338 win mag, and 210 ttsx. No shoulders aimed at or hit. Took a LONG time to find her.
Trailed a doe shot with a 6mm and TSX for about an hour same place to find her.
Have dropped lots of deer with tsx and 223 same place within sight. ANd had to trail a couple very similar to above. Found all. About the same effort.
Can tell no difference in finding deer by caliber. Can seemingly tell some difference with easier to find, and shorter runs the closer you get to 4000 fps MV.
I know that for me, if the wind blows, its just a different wind correction on the 223 than on my others... one of my longest deer pokes was irons, a bit over 550, and in a stiff norther around 22 mph according to my wind speed meter, and did a few more adjustments due to terrain affecting the wind... dead very quickly, with witnesses fwiw.
I've said it before, one of the toughest trails was NO blood for over 200 yards. Rib cage double lung doe in Laredo. 50 bmg. Go figure.
But I can't say that I"ve ever come to the conclusion that larger bullets HURT your chances any.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,839 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,839 Likes: 6 |
When it's windy what do you .223 guys shoot at deer? We still shoot a .223, here's a video of my sons first antelope last October near Gillette Wyoming. Listen to the wind in the video. Jacob's First Antelope
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 7
New Member
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New Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 7 |
No, in my opinion the smallest deer round acceptable is the .243 Win.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
And you also don't think an 7/08 can kill elk at 200 yards..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,736
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,736 |
When it's windy what do you .223 guys shoot at deer? .223. The last deer I shot last year the wind was blowing 30 mph steady with gusts to 40+ and the temp was down around zero. Worked fine.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
.243 was the minimum legal in North Carolina where we hunted with rifles. My Brother hunts in Maine, and it's the same there. Probably because the fish and game guys don't consider .223 effective in the hands of John Q. Public. A .22WMR is an effective deer round if you shoot every deer between the eyes. I would have to evaluate "effective" as the killing power of the round + the skill of the shooter. For anyone I know who has ever asked me for advice, I've recommended .270 up. Most of the guys have gone after other animals like black bears up in Maine and it's been taken as sound advice. I grew up with, and still use traditional lead bullets and I killed lots of deer with a .30-06 and a 165 grain Sierra Game King on top of 48 grains of IMR 4064. My Brother has killed many more, and bear with the same in his .308 Win. If I were to use this success rate as "effective" than I would say the .223 is not. Not in ordinary hands.
To add to this. As to the phrase "knock a deer down." I shot lots of deer with a bow and watched them walk or run off, slow down and fall over. I have to say that in 19 years of hunting North Carolina and shooting about 60 deer, I knocked down better than 90% of them. I shot them high in the shoulder straight up the front leg and they all go down. I used a .30-06, a .300 Win Mag and a .300 WSM with 165 grain lead core bullets. My best friend, who hunted with me all those years used a .300 Weatherby Mag and we actually had to look for some of his deer. Some of them, you could stick your arm through... but they ran. He used the same bullets in 180 grains. It's a great mystery. 22 caliber centerfires are legal in Maine and North Carolina for deer. Getting your info from Don?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
When it's windy what do you .223 guys shoot at deer? Would you consider a 30/30 a deer capable round?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 666
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 666 |
30-30 is OK IMO, but highly overrated. I have owned several 30-30s over the years, through trades and deals, but 2 years ago was the first time I used one to hunt deer. I ended up following a doe about 100 yards that was shot through both lungs. It did not even run flat out, just kind of skipped away. I am not used to that. Higher velocity rounds have more shock , I guess. I usually take the Black Gun (.223) out when it is bad, rainy weather. Easy to oil up. I don't ever remember a deer going more than about 30 feet with a double lung shot using a .223. Someone posted they never saw a rifle knock a deer down. As far as "Knocking a deer down", I have flipped two over backwards. One with an 8MMx54R and one with a 7x57. Depends where you hit them.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,777 Likes: 6 |
Every deer I've shot with a .223 has dropped in it's tracks...but they've all been high shoulder shots. I keep planning to lung shoot one but just can't make myself do it with the TSX. When it's windy what do you .223 guys shoot at deer? If it's really windy I always make sure I'm shooting a .224 bullet. ...
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I've never understood behind the shoulder shooters.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,284
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,284 |
A 223 is a pretty good deer round. Just like any other cartridge...put the bullet in the right spot and the deer is done.
Josh
Life is hard,its even harder when you are stupid.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 53
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 53 |
The .223 with a 40gr. Sierra hollow point will kill deer, hogs and black bear DRT if you do your part. They will also penetrate 1/2 inch plate steel. 270, 7mm, 300WM will not. So much for the penetration theory. The heavier .223 bullets do not perform as well but with the right bullet choic will still kill deer as good or better with a 30-30
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,888 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,888 Likes: 11 |
Someone posted they never saw a rifle knock a deer down. As far as "Knocking a deer down", I have flipped two over backwards. One with an 8MMx54R and one with a 7x57. Depends where you hit them. It wasn't the bullet impact that flipped them.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,219
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,219 |
The .223 is not for everybody. If you don't have confidence in the cartridge, the rifle, or your ability to either put the bullet where it needs to go or wait for an acceptable shot angle then don't use one. The same applies whether the target is an 80 pound doe or a 250 pound buck. This buck was taken with my .223 at about 125 yards. My handload with a 55 grain Speer and near max charge of H335. The 200+ (field dressed) buck went maybe 25 yards. Shot placement was on the shoulder. ![[Linked Image]](http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii60/Griz308/Hunting/Jerrysbuck2011-2-lr_zps580fddd4.jpg)
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