Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Internet Bull-istics.....

You know, one of the GREAT things about these forums is the wealth of information available. Yet.... sadly, it can go away just as quickly as it arrives, or be difficult to fine.

Just as a quick example, there is a very experienced member here, whose expertise is spread across many threads. I've taken a few minutes to gather the most relevant statements up, in an effort to ensure that no information is lost. Moderators, please feel free to pin this information so it doesn't get lost, or perhaps copy it into the FAQs. I suspect this post alone, will help many 'newbies' get educated, without having to ask those embarassing basic questions.

Granted I don't have this level of expertise, so I hope no one will mind if I add a few questions / comments, along with the original text.

I don't think that this member really needs any introduction.... ya'll can probably figure it out pretty quick.

(my comments in parenthesis � MikeGib)

Unique observations in bullet behavior:

- TSX bullets blowing up � (how in the hell do you �blow up� a solid copper bullet, anyway? 5,000fps ? 6,000fps? Warp 9?)

- Some FMJ are really hollow points (which is why we call them �FMJ� as that confuses the hell out of the enemy�.)

- Some FMJs will actually mushroom and leave huge wounds. (guess the game departments are really being backward-ass by banning their use for most hunting, huh?)

- I guess if you are likely to be caught using the wrong rifle for the game and range, it is be best to use a monlithic solid or FMJ bullet as a compromise. (what if your FMJ is really a hollow-point?)

- Above 2800 fps, only the Swift A-Frame will retain more than about 75% of weight. The Barnes and Failsafe lose about 25% of weight as their petals shear off and they pass through like FMJ bullets with a narrow wound channel after the initial disruption. (really? Are they like the FMJs that mushroom? Or the hollow point FMJs?)

- Of course the TSX has a lot of penetration, just like a FMJ with a narrow and long wound channel. (which FMJ is this, again?)

- You can probably get quick kills and lots of penetration from a FMJ at 3,000 fps, for a lot less money, if you don't intend to use bullets as their manufacturers intended. (or mind violating the game laws�. LOL).

- A lead bullet at high velocity might penetrate a 5/8-inch cold rolled steel plate, while a solid copper or FMJ AP round will disintegrate. (no [bleep]? I thought that AP meant �armor piercing��. Aw, nevermind).

Photography expert:

- I just got access to a very high speed camera to try to see what is happening, one mm at a time. (apparently the camera didn�t come with any film�.)

- I have done my own with bullets I use, and I will try to find some cross-sectional images of other lab tests online to post here. (apparently he never got around to finding any pictures, being too busy educating the rest of us�.)


Wound ballistics expertise:

- After any of the bullets slow down significantly or lose their expanded front portion, the wound channels are no wider than the diameter of the bullet (whoa � that is going to be big news to anyone who has ever hunted with a hard cast bullets, and seen wound channels much bigger than the actual hard cast bullets themselves�.)

- accounts of soldiers unable to drive a bayonet into their adversary (consciencious objectors, maybe?)

- A friend of mine, a very strong, lean fellow, was once robbed and shot 6 times in the abdomen point blank with a .22LR revolver. He tightened up, and not a single bullet penetrated more than an inch of muscle. (ah, the original �abs of steel�!!!)

- The large muscles on the upper legs, shoulderns and backs of large animals like lions, bears and moose can be quite soft when relaxed, but very hard when flexed, totally changing the reaction of a bullet. (yeah it really makes the bullets mad�..like when you forget flowers for your wife on her birthday)

Any rifle other than a 7.62x51 NATO � has distinct sound in combat which can compromise the position of its user. (such as �bang?�)

Advice on rifles for the deer hunter:

A Sharps in .45-70 would make as good an "all-round rifle" for deer from 40 yards to 400 as a .300 Win Mag (quick � somebody call up Winchester � all they needed to do to save the company, was bring back the .45-70 Sharps and drop the .300 mags�..)

A .460 Weatherby might work better on those 50-yard deer, if the .300 Magnum and TSX are too marginal for you (I thought we were supposed to be using Sharps .45-70s?)

- Correction: A .300 magnum with a scope and TSX at over 3100 fps on a deer at 70 yards is a misapplication of the rifle, cartridge and bullet. (God help us if the deer ever find out about this)

An impressive resume:

- I am a consulting engineer who develops, among other things, weapons systems, from hunting rifles to attack helicopters, as well as composite armor to defeat it, from the 9mm handgun to 155mm sabot round. (which is pretty handy when you are trying to figure out which FMJ bullet can defeat the ab muscles of your deer, if it tightens up before you shoot�.)

- I am a mechanical engineer, designing robotics, but also have engineered skyscrapers (mechanical, electrical, plumbing, site drainage, etc), ponds, dams, small bridges, as well as medical devices, computers, cell phones, firearms, tools, farm machinery, military aircraft and automobile components, chemical and polymer plants, and a wide array of other retail products and manufacturing process development. I have worked in 32 states, as well as overseas. (Jeez when do you find time to hunt� wait�. think I just answered my own question)

- As for my engineering degree, I have several, as well as PhD courses in specific areas related to projects, at Georgia Tech, Clemson, USC, and JPL. Since you are a pilot, I was a consultant on composites and airframes manufacturing of most of commercial and military jets, and few helicopters back in the early to mid 1980s. Current projects include development of the next generation of lightweight personnel, vehicle and aircraft armor. (going to experiment with really tight deer shoulder muscles as an edible, environmentally-friendly armor?)

- my 45 years of hunting, competition shooting and firearms engineering. (I am personally glad you did not 'rub in' your vast hunting experience, by posting lots of pictures)

- The 600,000 rounds I have fired in competition and practice (which naturally tells a person a lot about what happens when a bullet hits a critter�.)

- I included the 45 years of hunting and 400,000 handgun rounds in there.
- I just renewed my hunting license for the 40th year. (uh � 40th???�. Did you forget to have a license for the first 5 years? LOL)

- I grew up on a cattle ranch, and had spent 1,000 nights under the stars before I was 21. (we�ll leave the sheep jokes out�.)

I have a thick skin (gosh I wonder why��??????)

A hell of a summary............ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Mike some reading here is to be read with tongue in cheek but then it's difficult to drink my coffee,laugh,shake my head,hold tongue in cheek and absorb all that gospel at the same time.

You left out the part about inventing the internet..............I`ve heard of this guy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That guy is the smartest engineer I have ever even heard of.

Guess I don't read enough of the stupid threads on here, cuzz I don't have a friggin clue who that is.

i got a pretty good engineer story, and true too...

me and a couple of other boilermakers were inventorying some parts in the warehouse of a generating station in preparation for an outage.... some of the parts had a wrong number on the tag so we did some measurements and weighed a couple... they appeared to be out of spec....

there was an engineer on site who worked for the company who had supplied the parts and they brought him around to the warehouse to check out the discrepancy....
he first insisted that we did not know how to measure.... some discussion ensued between a superintendant and the engineer.... the superintendant asked us for the scale ticket and showed it to the engineer... the engineer then walked to the scale, waited for a forklift to take a pallet off, and then stepped on the scale... he shook his head and said that the scale was at least 10 lbs off at his weight and probably a lot more off at a couple of thousand pounds... the superintendant told him to remove his overcoat and weigh again... he stepped off the scale, removed his coat, folded it over his arm and stepped back on the scale..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i'm with you there steelhead...

there's a lot of stuff that goes on here that i miss when i'm working.... which has been a whole lot for the last 10 months.... i do not take a computer on the road with me, and rely on public libraries and such where i mostly check email and sometimes stir up the campfire to see what's happening.... i missed this one altogether though...
wonder how much popcorn it consumed..... john w

[quote] A friend of mine, a very strong, lean fellow, was once robbed and shot 6 times in the abdomen point blank with a .22LR revolver. He tightened up, and not a single bullet penetrated more than an inch of muscle. (ah, the original �abs of steel�!!!) [quote]

I am working feverishly flexing my abbs in order to protect my abdomen from small arms fire, not quite sure how to apply such technology for ribb protection though........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Mike,
I gave references to all those facts you find so startling, to laboratories, military studies, etc. You could even section some of the FMJ bullets I described as really being hollow points and see for yourself. Apparently you didn't bother to pay attention to the experts in the US military whom I quoted, the bullet manufacturers, or even check out the bullet construction yourself. Why not?

Anyone who does not take marksmanship seriously probably thinks it is outrageous to fire 50 to 100 rounds a day in practice.

This is not the forum for this kind of crap. IMHO.

.....meant to the original poster.

Good Job Mike. BMT

Guess you missed this pearl of wisdom:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...p;page=1#847314

Don't forget to read up on the 'abs of steel'......

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...p;page=1#879065

See? That's why we need this pinned, heck, there are at least TWO members on this forum who are not familiar with some real ballistics knowledge!

I'm glad that Lee stepped foward to claim ownership. I was concerned that he'd be too modest.

Mike, this is my last response to your ignorant personal attacks.

I understand you are not a very technical person. Neither are others, but they didn't have your reaction. Ask yourself why you are misbehaving in such a fashion.

Where do you suggest???? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Actually, Lee, I bet a whole lot of people had the same response. It was only Mike who gathered all those lines together. He also added some tongue-in-cheek comments of his own, but again many others would have had thoughts along the same lines.

I laughed my [email]A@#[/email] off---I did not know that a real person actually posted this drivel! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Many of those are indeed "gems"...of comedy! I especially like the one about the scoped 300WM with a tsx on deer at 70yds being a misapplication of the gun and round. HUH? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Yeah, others read that crap and think the same things. Many others!

This is funny.....

Lee, keep posting. Laughing my azz off.