Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Hunting with Mk262, 77grn SMK, OTM

I'm not much on pictures of dead animals or wounds unless I'm out to prove a point, hence I don''t have such.

But I can tell you that it was always caliber in and seemingly about 3 times that exit wound wise.

I don't shoot bones unless its head, so thats about all I can ask for.

Huge exit holes tell me the bullet is too frangible for my tastes and may fail if encountering hard/big bones or long angling shots.

Of course some prefer huge holes and thats their choice.

The SPR project was a lot more than just "handloading". It gave us the first AR with a free floated picatinny rail (Colt's M4 still doesn't have one today). This allowed a quick-detach bipod, and more importantly, it allowed the use of clip-on night vision. I never saw quality folding BUIS's before that either.

I think there are other hunting bullets I would use.

Or an article in a magazine.





The 77gr SMK was in use loooong before the military ever thought to use it. No consideration was ever given to it's terminal ballistics. The only modification from the original MK 262, and MK 262 MOD 1, is the addition of a canulure. That was added to satisfy a military requirement for auto weapons.







I'm quite aware of "it's philosophy of use" as I've been issued a metric [bleep] load of it.







The fact that ALL match kings at times exhibit nearly ideal terminal performance, does not negate the reality that most often they penetrate 3-4 inches, tumble, and if velocity is high enough, fragment. I would love to see the gel shots you're looking at. Please post them.

I have seen truckloads of Whitetail deer and pigs killed with 55 grain BT from a standard .223. With a 62 grain TTSX there is not much here in North America that I would not shoot given the opportunity.

It's been said many times - "Headstamps mean little when it comes to killing"

where did bipods and float tubes originate from? Damn sure not the SPR project, competitive shooters.

The ideas start somewhere, and then are beefed up by military.

I know. Thats where they started using 90 jlk data for the AMU at Benning, guess who gave them the leftover ammo from Perry.

The ammo part of this, was simply copy something thats been proven, see if we can make it work and go from there. Nothing that hasn't been done for years in private and military sectors..

I have a box of the over pressure 77 stuff from Black hills somewhere stashed so I know they had issues, but all they were doing is making it work in all weapons platforms across the board.
EXACTLY what we do in figuring out NTIT rattle battle team ammo. ... 77s that work across the board.

They have more things to take into account, but in the end, it was simply tweaking what had already been in use.

Formidilosus,

I'm not sure what the issue is or was still.

I do not have equipment working to post it but I'd love to mail you the article and that test if you will P M me your address.

J Guthrie was so highly respected you could quote his conversations and feel they were to them personally as far as the soundness of the statements. Obviously anyone could get his articles to check that. He was that kind of guy.

Best

Take a knee and rost95,

I'm curious as to who or what Crane and PRI are all about if you don't mind obliging,

Thanks,

Slasher- I actually find histories and this goes back many years on this bullet, extremely interesting, no different than my interest in paper patching and the experiments on the bullets from the 1800's, lots and lots with patches to get it right to compete at a high level of accuracy at insane ranges, too.
Ross Seyfried Good ol' Ross knew....

Mahatma Gandhi and Bobby Kennedy and I were having dinner many years ago and they both commented on this bullet...

Thanks,


Bullets from different centuries. That actually needed explaining as opposed to....

Anybody but Bobby Kennedy.

Gandhi was actually a strong proponent of citizens having guns. Just too many Brits to take on at the time.

Did you just start talking to yourself?

This is getting interesting.

Who knew BH took a SMK that had been around for years and added weight to the back so it was more stable and opened up just right so as to not violate the Hauge treaty.

Unbelievable!

TWR,

That is straight from the article from J Guthrie, the remark about the Hague Convention. Actually, the open tip removed weight making the rear heavier. He says, " the hollow cavity is not there to induce expansion; it's there to put the majority of weight towards the projectile's rear so that it is more stable in flight and increase accuracy."

"....it is not designed to expand and cause undue suffering." He notes that as "that critical phrase in the Hague Convention regarding ammunition."

He is not saying Sierra designed that years in advance knowing this would be an issue. He does note this though, perhaps as an afterthought that it could be a positive in light of any possible criticism.

Gary

I never heard of J Guthrie but the only change Sierra made to their bullet was to add a small cannelure only after Nosler almost stole the show.

And the ballistic gelatin photos I've seen show the bullet in pieces. They blow a heck of a hole in a coyote and I've yet to see one mushroom, nor have I recovered one in one piece.

Bluedreaux,

Just having fun.

I posted to Dr. Howell after he fell recently to keep a stiff upper chin instead of lip to see if would be caught and forum member ironbender caught it, and posted it back to me.


Then he says out of the blue , "Maxilla! Good ol' Maxilla!!! or something like that. I tried to find anything on that and realized he was making a private joke to himself, so since then I've done it a couple of times to see if anyone noticed weird inserts and poster jimmyp did.

But paper patching bullets to drastically improve accuracy is an important part of ballistics history. It's very detailed as to how it is to be done correctly to achieve unreal accuracy that many years ago.

Posters from just 10 years ago who read Wolfe publications Rifle and Handloader would have known exactly and immediately who Ross Seyfried is and would demonstrate they have their history down as to riflery.

TWR,

J Guthrie had made a big name for himself in a short time period amongst magazine writers. Going to be like the next Jack O'Connor as to popularity or Mr. O'Connor's nemesis who loved the big calibers. Do you know him? The inventor of many of our famous handgun cartridges.

I know some here are not big on the Mule Deers of the world but I am as they are the people I learned from.

Mr. Guthrie credits the Sierra with some yaw.

Someone has to take the technical side of all this and put it in layman's terms and Mr. Guthrie was good at that except he went further and made the sometimes mundane extremely entertaining.

I don't know bout all this. But I can shoot.

Yes Jeff, most of us, who didn't just fall off the turnip truck are well aware of that. Many of us are also well aware of the fact that civilians, like Glenn Zediker and company, are the ones who figured out how to make the AR dominate Hi-Power.

The fact still remains that Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile....

Mr. Bin could lock this discussion down permanently and that would be fine by me.

this conversation is mild.