24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
m77 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
Good day.

I am posting this question here as it does not have as much relevance at 'normal' hunting distance. What do you guys see as acceptable regarding velocity spread when shooting out to a 1000y?

Thanks

Pieter

GB1

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,167
Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,167
Likes: 9

Preferably single digit ES's, but under 20 is acceptable.

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 590
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 590
At 1k a 15fps change is a 6" elevation difference. That puts me out of the 10 ring and dropping a point. Also would put me out of the boiler room on a deer. Really need single digits shooting that far but extremely hard to do.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,549
Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,549
Likes: 7
In my .243AI flinging 105's at my locale, a 15 fps change only accounts for 2.8" of vertical at 1000. In my 7WSM with 162's it's only 2.6"...

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,093
Likes: 4
M
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,093
Likes: 4
208 AMax, 2600 fps. 15 fps is a 4.3" change at 1K.

In the 308 Win, I believe a heavier bullet helps even out velocity spread. Can't prove it, but I believe the added inertia helps even things out.

IC B2

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 23
New Member
Offline
New Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 23
To me, less than 20 but I prefer my 308 to be closer to 10


I'm good with being a sheepdog
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
I'm not sure I trust chronographs to be accurate enough to be a reliable indicator of vertical spread. Shot a 5 shot group at 600 yards the other day from my .308 with 155gr Scenars launched at 2865fps. 4 of the five had about 1" of vertical. The other shot opened it up to about 2" vertical. Point being that is much less vertical spread than my chrono indicated it should have produced. Chronographs are nice and I use mine extensively, but the most reliable results are what you see on the target.

John


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,258
K
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
K
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,258
I also have had some outrageously good groups from loads with less than stellar ES and SD. I always wonder if my chrono is not as accurate as it should be when that happens.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Originally Posted by Hondo64d
I'm not sure I trust chronographs to be accurate enough to be a reliable indicator of vertical spread. Shot a 5 shot group at 600 yards the other day from my .308 with 155gr Scenars launched at 2865fps. 4 of the five had about 1" of vertical. The other shot opened it up to about 2" vertical. Point being that is much less vertical spread than my chrono indicated it should have produced. Chronographs are nice and I use mine extensively, but the most reliable results are what you see on the target.

John


BINGO. The correct answer is here. I still hope for low, but I always trust paper over computers and theories every day.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,549
Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,549
Likes: 7
The physics won't lie, but the problem is getting accurate and statistically significant data. Trying to use SD numbers based on a sample of 5 or 10 shots is like thinking that you'll never get into a car accident because in 5 or 10 trips to the grocery store it hasn't happened yet. To get accurate SD numbers, you need to use 10 or 20 times that many sample shots.

Add into the equation that chronographs, even the very best ones, have up to 0.5% error, meaning that with a load that averages 3000 fps, you'll have a 15 fps error margin. It's hard to get a reliable SD or ES number when up to 15 fps difference could be entirely chronograph error.

IC B3

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Thats why you shoot paper at the distance you have as max.

And you shoot lots of it. In fact when in competition, I rarely was sure of a load unless I"d shot it at least 4 months in weekly matches every weekend... that meant probably 32 groups of 10 shots or 16 of 20... that was a start at seeing if it was good enough.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,167
Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,167
Likes: 9
There's an awful lot of people that don't have the gun and/or ability to shoot the ES difference at 1000 yards, let alone have the knowledge, time, expense, or desire to build the loads that might.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
m77 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
I regularly shoot out to around 880 yards(I have shot close to 1000Y but the spot I am shooting from now is set up at between 600 and 880Y) and my my hits are pretty consistent. My cold bore shots have been very good and my vertical adjustment has been spot on. What made me wonder is that I get good consistency regarding accuracy but my chrony regularly gives me a velocity spread of around 20fps.

Pieter

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
So why would you believe a machine over where the holes are in the paper..


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
m77 Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 794
Originally Posted by rost495
So why would you believe a machine over where the holes are in the paper..


I think one reason why I wondered about it, is when I shoot or hunt in different areas with different altitude and weather it would be more comforting knowing exactly what velocities of different loads are at zeroing weather/place. I do think my velocity spread is probably less than the crony indicates at times, as accuracy has been good but maybe trying another crony might reveal more.

Pieter

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,425
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,425
The target is the only thing that matters. If the group is holding the water-line it doesn't matter what the chrono says about E.S.s. If the come-ups aren't matching the drops, then either the chronograph or scope is lieing to you so you end up lieing to your program to make it work.

In the end you have to go to the target, so it is just as easy to start there.


Life begins at 40. Recoil begins at "Over 40" Coincidence? I don't think so.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,796
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,796
How many loads don't vary by 20fps just due to normal morning/mid day temp changes, even with say hodgen extreme powders? Curious how common that is even with the best of loads?

Also, if you think about a 15 fps change equalling 5" at 1000 (extreme spread), then wouldn't you really only see a 2.5" difference since your zero would represent the middle of the spread?


Sean

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

551 members (1minute, 06hunter59, 219DW, 21, 204guy, 10Glocks, 62 invisible), 2,577 guests, and 1,262 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,193,600
Posts18,511,464
Members74,002
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.107s Queries: 48 (0.013s) Memory: 0.8775 MB (Peak: 0.9601 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-14 19:25:18 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS