Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Presbyterian Church (USA) votes to approve homosexual "marriage"

It is not a matter of whether homosexuality is of a greater or lesser degree of sin. It is that the homosexual has no intention of repenting their sin and turning away from their sinful lifestyle.

So sad to see. Actually, the danger to the church, no less than in the first and second century church, comes from within, not from without. Some things never change.

May God have mercy..

If I understand your comment on Israel,..do you mean to say that you hold that the Israel has no further place in eschatology? Many Reformers, amillennialists, who eschew prophecy almost completely, seemingly including the the OT covenants with the saints (the Abrahamic, Noahic, Davidic, covenants and so on) do believe that God hung up the phone on Israel at the rejection of the Christ. To the point of almost an anti-semitism.

Or, do you mean that secular Israel has committed it's share of offenses and atrocities and shouldn't just be given a nod of approval even though we hold them to be "the shoot we were grafted into"?

Israel refers to the children of Abraham. One is a child of Abraham by what faith he has, not by the blood that flows through his veins. Someone with the "right" blood, but who doesn't have faith like Abraham had, is no one special to the Lord, i.e., is not Israel. The promises made to Israel were promises made to the children of Abraham by faith, not by blood. Abraham's physical descendents who reject Christ are sons of the Devil, says Christ, not sons of Abraham, and therefore not Israel. The state of "Israel" is an abomination to the Lord because it stands for the rejection of Christ, therefore being antichrist, no way deserving the support, in any sense, of Christians.

By embracing every current social trend, flexing and bending and re-writing their rules at the slightest pressure, individuals and organizations end up standing for nothing and become meaningless and irrelevant.

But maybe that's what they really want.

Well said.

That's sig line material right there.

Ok, this is what, by faith, I meant "grafted into"; that is, us gentile believers becoming sons of Abraham by faith. Just clarifying.
However, while no expert on prophecy or eschatology, I "feel" as do many thinking evangelicals that the secular nation of Israel will play a key role geo-politically in the end times..

Sorry for the detour from the OP which itself is a harbinger of end times.

After Juda split for Israel and they became two nations a prophecy was made that those of Israel would be scattered to the fipour corners of the Eart and lose their identity, while those of the tribe of Juda (Jews) would never lose their identity.

EPHRAIM AND MANASSEH



Role Reversal Refuted!

By

Robert Phillips

"And Jacob said unto Joseph. .. thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine... And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him. And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn. And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father:for this is the firstbom; put thyrighthand upon his head. And his father refused, and said, I know it,my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great:but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.And he blessed them thatday, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh." - (GENESIS 48:3-20)

To fully appreciate the significance of the blessing of Joseph's two sons, we need to understand some background with regard to both history and prophecy in relation to Israel. The promises to the tribes of Israel were specifically reserved for the "LAST DAYS", or "CHRISTIAN ERA" - Genesis 49:1, Hebrews 1:1,2. The rebellion of the ten tribes in the North, against the Throne of David, in the time of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, is foretold in 1 Kings 11:9-13, and 29-32. This northern ten-tribe division retained the name ISRAEL.The tribe of Judah, in the South, were granted the loyal support of the tribe of Benjamin, and were collectively known as JUDAH. Understanding this division of ISRAEL and JUDAH is essential, in order to rightly apply prophecy. 2 Kings 17 gives a summary of how, because of sin, God took ten-tribe ISRAEL away from the throne of Judah, and eventually caused them to go into exile in Assyria. They did not return! The fact is,both Ezra and Nehemiah record that only 42,360 of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, returned to Judea from exile in Babylon, together with a "mixed multitude" see Ezra 2:64, Nehemiah 7:66, 13:3. From these, the Jews of Jesus' day descended. It is clear therefore, that to identify ISRAEL in both history and prophecy we have to distinguish Israel from the Jews. It was prophesied that ISRAEL would lose their identity, God referring to them as "not my people", in other words, a people who would not be identified as Israel (Hosea 1:10, 2:23), yet we may identify Israel by the destiny they were to fulfil! I Chronicles 5:1 tells us the "BIRTHRIGHT was given unto the SONS OF JOSEPH". This means that, through the descendants of the SONS OF JOSEPH, God would fulfil the great promises of Israel's greatness! That greatness included the promise given to Jacob in Genesis 35:11:

"I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply: a NATION and a COMPANY OF NATIONS shall be of thee, and Kings shall come out of thy loins... "

Clearly ISRAEL was to be a NATION with a MONARCHY, which would expand to become a "COMPANY OF NATIONS"!

The account of the blessing of Joseph's sons, EPHRAIM and MANASSEH, is recorded in Genesis Chapter 48. It is staggering that Jacob chose his grandsons, the sons of Joseph to be bearers of the BIRTHRIGHT. That birthright was the passing on of the promises given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob himself! This included the promise given to Jacob, that his seed would become a "NATION AND COMPANY OF NATIONS"! The reason was that, though they were actually his grandsons, Jacob adopted the sons of Joseph as his own sons. It was, in fact, the highest honour he could give to Joseph, that his sons would not only be equal with the other sons of Jacob, but would have the birthright. Yet Jacob went further than this. Although Manasseh was the elder of the two lads, whilst giving both EPHRAIM and MANASSEH a share of the birthright, Jacob gave the firstborn-portion to EPHRAIM! In fact, Ephraim is God's firstborn! (Jeremiah 31:9)

To identify modern ISRAEL,we are clearly looking for a people who, though not recognised as Israel, have the hallmarks of Israel-identity. God had told Abraham his seed would be GREAT and their name "GREAT"! Jacob's descendants were to become a "NATION AND COMPANY OF NATIONS", a prophecy entailed in the birthright given to the sons of Joseph.


....for those interested in what The Bible says about it.

Denmark, name contracted from the tribe of Dan whose people were referred to as having the mark of Dan.

Great Birth Nation later contracted to Great Briton.

Many who have been taught they were Gentiles are actually decedents of the lost tribes of Israel.

I have to go along with that whether religious or secular.

You "feel" that way because of the modern predominance of Dispensationalism (a system of doctrinal teaching that was never heard of among Christians as recently at two-hundred years ago) in Evangelical and Baptist churches.

Eyeball, are you suggesting the entire Christian Church was blind to all this until less than two-hundred years ago with the invention of the doctrines you espouse?

It's also interesting that 1) the advent of these new teachings (focusing on the importance of Jewish blood lines and Jewish rule over humanity from a physical national state of Israel) corresponded almost perfectly with the rise of great Jewish wealth through the establishment and rise to prominence of Jewish banking, and 2) that from this doctrine soon arose "Christian Zionism." Purely coincidental, I'm sure.

Paul and the prophets teach that there will be a restoration of national Israel and a national reconciliation with their redeemer... they will see Him whom they pierced. The blindness will fall away at the coming of Christ; Romans 9 and 10 and so on.

So... if they are altogether cast away and replaced by believers, (as Luther taught) who are these folks that are going to be restored? No way around it, national Israel in some sort of unbelieving status must be restored and ultimately at the return of Christ be reconciled. I look to see the temple rebuilt in my lifetime and also desecrated as did Antiochus Epiphanes, who was a type of last and final anti-Christ.

And... I am not a dispensationalist.

Feel free to read the scripture of my previous post. The footstone in front of the throne Kings and Queens of Great Britain stood on to receive their coronation was carried through the captivity of the Ten Tribes by the Assyrians as they (Israelites) worked their way to settle the Great Western shore and was the stone Issac laid his head on to recieve his vision from God.

Modern religion ignores many facts enumerated in The Bible having been blinded and influenced by incorrect teachings from childhood, as we are still today.

Interesting. I had to go look up this "dispensationalism". Interesting new doctrine. That's the neat thing about "Christianity" it's always in a flux of change.

His Word isn't. Too bad many ignore it.

In Romans 9, 10, and 11, Paul is speaking of Israel in two distinct senses, which he clearly states, "For they are not all Israel which are of Israel." There is the ethnic sense of the word, i.e., Paul's kinsmen by blood, and then there is the Israel of the promise to Abraham (the sense that's important to God), which only includes those who share the Faith of Abraham. Circumcision is a mere sign of that faith, but without the faith it's meaningless.

When Paul says it's his prayer that Israel will be saved, he's speaking of the circumcision, i.e., his kinsmen. He's not speaking of Israel in the spiritual sense, who are the sons of Abraham, the sons of God through Christ, who are certainly saved by faith, as Abraham was.

As to the grafting on, etc., that references the people to whom revelation was first given being the natural branches, who are now broken off. The reason he reminds us that this isn't a condemnation of the Jewish people forever (i.e., they may, as a people, come to Christ also) is to prevent the sin of pride among the grafted on branches, or else they may meet a similar fate to the natural branches themselves.