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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1 |
... unsubstantiated credit forced by the .gov into the housing market caused a bubble The government didn't force them...it was a ponzi scheme but it was their own doing. The .gov forcing them into it was the spin that Limbaugh picked up on, but as it turned out, less than 20% of the bad loans were the government backed/mandated loans. The banks had a very elaborate scheme going on in the derivatives market, and they were convinced the housing market would never go down. Most don't realize it, but if it was just the housing market and bad housing loans, we wouldn't have really had the big economic meltdown that we had. No the real meltdown was the derivatives market, and .gov had NOTHING to do with that. Since you've seemed to just swallow the spin on what happened, I doubt you'll take the time to read what REALLY happened, but on the off chance you're interested, here's the official report: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-FCIC/pdf/GPO-FCIC.pdf
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,553 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,553 Likes: 21 |
The economy is what it is. You can wring hands and hate it, or you can make a bunch of money and position yourself for what comes next.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,031 Likes: 63
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,031 Likes: 63 |
.... If the middle class continues to disappear, then we�ll hit a point of no-return and our economy will begin a very long phase of contraction as it tries to balance itself. Nicely written GunGeek. I appreciate the sentiment. But I disagree with the last sentence. We began that long decline phase back in the 70s. We put it on steroids in the 80s. And we made it unanimous in the 90s. You cannot build a healthy and sustainable economy on financial fever dreams and social media bullshit. When this nation turned its back on manufacturing and laid its gaze on things like finance and real estate the die was cast. Now our biggest export is entertainment. When your economy depends more on the likes of Lady Gaga and Lindsey Lohan than the next door neighbor who works at (or rather "worked" at until we shipped his job overseas) the local saw mill, steel plant, and auto plant you are in a world of trouble. At least IMvHO. Will Yep, you have to make something to create wealth. The promotion of an economy based on taking in each other's laundry is akin, economically speaking, to a scientific proposal for a perpetual motion machine. But the folks who drove our industry out knew perfectly well what they were doing.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
When your economy depends more on the likes of Lady Gaga and Lindsey Lohan than the next door neighbor who works at (or rather "worked" at until we shipped his job overseas) the local saw mill, steel plant, and auto plant you are in a world of trouble.
Will
You sound like a pitch-forker. Pat Buchanan has been saying exactly that for decades. He was right.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,031 Likes: 63
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,031 Likes: 63 |
When your economy depends more on the likes of Lady Gaga and Lindsey Lohan than the next door neighbor who works at (or rather "worked" at until we shipped his job overseas) the local saw mill, steel plant, and auto plant you are in a world of trouble.
Will
You sound like a pitch-forker. Pat Buchanan has been saying exactly that for decades. He was right. Yep.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,099 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,099 Likes: 5 |
Now that's funny... you spin that 20% of failed loans that were 'mandated' as if 1/5th statistically is inconsequential. And if I'd just understand that derivatives were a legal ponzi scheme... Or the construction industry that historically shouldered 4.5 millions jobs annually for 25 years, not including the 6+ million during the boom years, would fall to 2.2 million jobs for the last 6 years... that in itself isn't an economic national disaster... Or the .gov had nothing to do with deregulating the derivatives market in what? 2000 or so. Kent
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Senator Ted Cruz ✔ @SenTedCruz Follow Q1 GDP fell 2.9%, Obama Admin blames winter. But �85 winter was also historically cold & Q1 GDP grew 4%
(Tweet)
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,084
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,084 |
Things are bad and may get worse...
Obwan will see to that
He has an agenda...
or
I s very stupid
Snake
That which does not kill us makes us stronger
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Look at the bright side. He's stupid.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,076 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,076 Likes: 1 |
...You cannot build a healthy and sustainable economy on financial fever dreams and social media bullshit. When this nation turned its back on manufacturing and laid its gaze on things like finance and real estate the die was cast. Now our biggest export is entertainment.
When your economy depends more on the likes of Lady Gaga and Lindsey Lohan than the next door neighbor who works at (or rather "worked" at until we shipped his job overseas) the local saw mill, steel plant, and auto plant you are in a world of trouble... Good post, Will. I'd like to add that the overwhelming burden of a bloated .gov will continue to crush the life from our economy, no matter what it does.
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Yet...dumbass Americans still fight the export of natural resources.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 34 |
Yet dumb ass voters still re-elect dumbass people to be president.
Haven't decided on one yet
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
it's pretty clear that no one and I mean no one has a clue as to how the new capitalism and the new socialism are going to fit together. the Obamacare debacle involves 12 or so percent of the economy, maybemore.
our natural resources, at the core, is what we have, plus our human capital and technology.
somebody point to a well accepted monetary theory, and we'll get the horse up on all fours walking again. until then, she's lying on her side.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,211 Likes: 9 |
it's pretty clear that no one and I mean no one has a clue as to how the new capitalism and the new socialism are going to fit together. the Obamacare debacle involves 12 or so percent of the economy, maybemore.
our natural resources, at the core, is what we have, plus our human capital and technology.
somebody point to a well accepted monetary theory, and we'll get the horse up on all fours walking again. until then, she's lying on her side.
We know exactly how it works. When you keep the government out of capitalism,it works very well. As for Monetary theory:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,318 Likes: 25
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,318 Likes: 25 |
Regurgitated ponzi schemes are not an economy, product manufacturing is.
Kent Manufacturing won't save a damn thing, as most factory jobs pay little more than burger flippin' {and far less than waiting tables] now that most are non union. Around here, most factory work pays 9.00 - 11.00 per hour to start and it takes years to work up to a liveable wage. Folks making that kind of money aren't buying anything beyond the bare nessesities and ain't gonna stimulate schit.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,211 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,211 Likes: 9 |
Regurgitated ponzi schemes are not an economy, product manufacturing is.
Kent Manufacturing won't save a damn thing, as most factory jobs pay little more than burger flippin' {and far less than waiting tables] now that most are non union. Around here, most factory work pays 9.00 - 11.00 per hour to start and it takes years to work up to a liveable wage. And that's why it's better for us to let the Asians make the paper umbrella's that we throw away when we are done with our beach drinks. Manufacturing with high human capital requirements are a horse of a different color, and that's where we need to be working to throw off the shackles of high corporate taxes and regulation and turn loose the beast that is the American Worker.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,318 Likes: 25
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,318 Likes: 25 |
We ain't got any paper umbrella factories hereabouts. Not a one. We do have ones that make yogurt, plywood, wood pellets, fork lifts, calendars, date/address books and guns and what I said applies.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1 |
Manufacturing is a noble pursuit, but we need to manufacture quality goods that are in demand on a world wide scale. Added to that, we need to find a way to raise pay for the average worker. Worker wages have been stagnant for nearly 30 years and are now headed downward; that's really bad news for our economy over the long term.
Everyone seems to be pissed that the US is heavy in the service industry. But that's a very viable industry because our know how is something we can trade well on the world market, is in high demand, and those who work in professional services industries tend to make good wages.
The US financial industry is the one business sector we need to be worried about, because they took down our entire economy just a few years ago. We need financial service, no doubt about that. But we need to know the system is stable, so it's the one industry we need to monitor and regulate. Don't interfere, just keep an eye on them and don't trust them.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,031 Likes: 63
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,031 Likes: 63 |
Regurgitated ponzi schemes are not an economy, product manufacturing is.
Kent Manufacturing won't save a damn thing, as most factory jobs pay little more than burger flippin' {and far less than waiting tables] now that most are non union. Around here, most factory work pays 9.00 - 11.00 per hour to start and it takes years to work up to a liveable wage. Folks making that kind of money aren't buying anything beyond the bare nessesities and ain't gonna stimulate schit. It's not about stimulus. It's about wealth creation. There are only three ways to acquire wealth, 1) make it, 2) steal it, and 3) receive it as a gift. But someone has to be making it first. If not, residual wealth from earlier creation gradually dissipates. Stimulus doesn't create wealth. It just shuffles around the residual wealth.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,318 Likes: 25
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,318 Likes: 25 |
Regurgitated ponzi schemes are not an economy, product manufacturing is.
Kent Manufacturing won't save a damn thing, as most factory jobs pay little more than burger flippin' {and far less than waiting tables] now that most are non union. Around here, most factory work pays 9.00 - 11.00 per hour to start and it takes years to work up to a liveable wage. Folks making that kind of money aren't buying anything beyond the bare nessesities and ain't gonna stimulate schit. It's not about stimulus. It's about wealth creation. The only people factory work will create wealth for is the few at the top and those folks are already wealthy.
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