Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Anschutz 54 vs. 64

Would anyone please point me in the direction of literature related to the ACCURACY differences between the Anschutz rifles made with the 54 and 64 actions? Or, if you have any information offhand, I would like to hear it.

I'm looking to purchase an end-all, be-all accurate .22. I'll be using it in bench-rest/plinking situations only, and the only type of competition it will ever see will be ego-related.

I know next to nothing about how actions affect accuracy.

-Thanks

If "ego-related" + accuracy is your goal then the M-54 is the action you want. The design, originally known as the Mauser M-37, was built by Mauser for International competition during the late 1930's. It was purchased by Anschutz in 1952 and ever since has dominated World level competition.
The M-64 is a much less expensive and more of an entry level rifle. But they are accurate as well.

They are both very accurate but the 54 is what you want.

You can check out the Anschutz forum at www.rimfirecentral.com

The 54 is a work of art. Glides like butter and locks up like a bank vault. The 64 is a more utilitarian design. Light weight and simple. Both actions have been utilized in Olympic shooting for several decades. The accuracy is in the barrel. There are 64 actions that will shoot with 54's, given the operator is up to snuff. For plinking/benchrest the 54 is the easy answer. If you plan on carrying the rifle and hunting game the 64 is the way to go. I have several of both variety & like them all.

Scott

Hi R H. Long time no haircut.

Scott

Good to hear from you my friend. I trust all is well with you?

I don't recall that the 64 action was ever utilized in the Olympics, perhaps you are thinking of the 14 series Anschutz rifles. The only Anschutz actions I am aware of being used in the Olympics are the 54 based actions, the 14/18/19 series, and the Fortner action.

As far as accuracy either can provide an acceptable degree of accuracy however the 54 is by far the superior design, it is a stouter action and has a faster lock time. The 64 is basically an entry level rifle. To put it into perspective - the 64 is a VW beetle, the 54 is a Mercedes.

drover

I've had 54's, good rifles, still have an Annie 1717 in .17 HMR.

I would suggest to the OP, before he plops down his hard earned cash for a 54, check out a Cooper. I have a Cooper Classic and wouldn't trade it for a 54. Still have the Cooper, the .22LR 54 went down the road. 64's are good, just not in the same class.

The Cooper Classic is light as the 64, shoots like the 54.

Here's mine with a 2-7 Kahles Rimfire glass. This is the best .22LR rig I've ever had, a keeper.

DF

Whoops, guess I learned something new today. I always assumed the biathlon rifles were based on the 64 design. I had never heard of the Fortner until today. It's similar but obviously purpose built for that application. Cooper rifles are excellent as well and I would also throw the Sako P94S into the mix as they are deadly accurate as well.

Scott

Yeah, watching Olympic shooting, you'll see the straight pull Anschutz Fortners. Pretty neat and really fast. They seem to dominate, so one would assume they're the best available for that application.

DF

Is the new Anschutz sporter straight-pull action a Fortner design or something completely different. I have seen a 17HMR Hunter with this action, I believe it was new for SHOT last year.

Scott

I've been looking into this recently and I kept coming back to the same answer. And that answer was "Get a 54."

However... I ended up with a 64 and I have to say, this is one accurate sumbitch. I am enjoying the hell out of it.



Travis

If you don't intend to shoot a lot the 64 is great. But, over time, it will break down as the trigger operates as the bolt stop and the parts are both smaller in dimension and weaker in construction than the 54.

Accuracy is a given with Anschutz's. The real difference is durability.

Thanks a lot to everyone who has posted a response. I'm absorbing all of it and I hope to hear more. DirtFarmer I will look into a Cooper - can you suggest a starting point?

I traded for my Cooper, as well as others, used. One good place is Collectors Firearms in Houston. They have a great web site. I'd check on line to see what was available on other sites. Waiting for one to pop up does take patience. Generally gun shows are a mixed bag. Maybe at the bigger ones you'll find something.

With modern .22LR ammo you don't see high quality rifles that are "shot out". So, going used isn't a bad way to find your dream rifle.

Wish you the best in your quest...

DF

http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/inde...109&sprache=1&produktShow=detail

I think it's a joint effort, Fortner and Anschutz.

But it ain't cheap...

It does look pretty cool...

DF

Fiddy,

You can find 54's at a reasonable price if you are patient. There was one on here recently that was bedded to a McMillan that went for $950.00. I really wanted it but one of our homosexual members got it first. Oh well.

Also, DIP is making 75MOA rails for them right now. If you are planning on getting a 54 I'd go ahead and order one now. I put one of their 25 MOA rails on my sitxty-foe and it's pretty bad ass thus far.


Travis

In an article on the Fortner actioned Anschutz sporter they cited the price as around $3500, I don't think they will sell too many at that price. Another negative may be the weight, the bare rifle is about 7 3/4 lbs so depending on mounts and scope weight it will end up near 9 lbs, a little heavy for a sporter IMO.

drover

They'll sell to competition shooters, who likely outnumber hunters in ownership of Anschutz's by a healthy margin. The speed and durability of the Fortner action is wasted on a sporter, IMHO given how few rounds(relatively speaking) most hunters fire each year unless they're also shooting competitively.

Well, the 54 action may be wasted on a sporter, looking at it like that. Also a Win 52 and a 40XB...

But people spend serious bucks on them. The Cooper is probably over engineered, but I sure like mine.

Practically speaking, just for general shooting and plinking, it would be hard to justify more than a Ruger American or the Salvage/Marlin clones. Those rifles are pretty accurate.

I don't have one, not in the market for one...

DF

I can't believe no has pointed out the biggest benefit to the 54 over the 64 , the trigger the 64 trigger can be made better than average , but the 54 trigger and be made to rivial a jewell in a 40x all the way down to the 1oz. range

I didn't say the 54 action is wasted on a sporter. I said the Fortner action may be. The 54 and the Fortner are quite different animals.

Don't cyber-bully me flave..

OK.

Some folks don't mind paying for what they want, that's my point. So, it may or may not be a waste to have a Fortner action sporter. And, they may be a bit heavy. 54's tend to be on the heavy side.

DF

Flave what scope you end up with on your 64, thought you were gonna throw a SS on there if I recall? I've got a DIP 25 in the mail and some rings to mount up a 16X FF SS.. Talked a bit with Boxer and seems this combo otta let me zero at fifty and get me to 300+ easily...
Anyway, tell me how your liking that setup? How far have you taken it?
Proooollly gonna snag a 75 rail as well, just on GP's...

Those Fortner's are uber. After the last winter olympics I decided I needed one. Then I saw the price.

The only advantage I see in those would be due to the rate of fire in competition. I can't imagine buying one for blackbirds, and I'm rich.



Travis

Yeah. I slapped my 10X SS on there. It looks ridiculous but actually handles pretty nicely.

Mini-'flave and I took it to the 300 yesterday and had room to spare (with the 25 MOA rail). It shoots like a mother-UBER.




Travis

The extra weight of the 54's and 52's is worth it, to me, because that weight comes from beefed up internals. One reason they don't wear out like Anschutz 64's or Winchester 75's. I've got sporters on both actions (54 and 52) and like'em both.

All that gack aside, here's a pic of my 54 Sporter for the OP; with scope it weighs in at 8.5lbs. I use it in NRA Silhouette competition.

The problem with a sporter Fortner for competition is that I cannot think of one sporter class discipline that the speed afforded by the Fortner design is necessary. A Fortner action sporter seems to be an answer to a question that wasn't asked.

The locktime does not appear to be any faster than the 54 action and from the appearance of the Fortner action I suspect that the action is heavier than a 54 action which would move the balance rearward which is not a good thing for offhand shooting.

In the deep dark recesses of my memory though I seem to recall that a factory Anschutz MS Standard rifle was offered with a the fortner action, of course it would be doable since the weight limit for Standard class is 10 lb 2 oz.

drover

They're cool, different, but I don't see the need for one. Not for what I use a .22LR for, squirrel hunting, etc. Besides, they're around $3,500 or so. That would buy a high grade Cooper or even better, a std. Cooper like I already have, with some jingle still in my pocket.

DF

f you can find one,the ES350B mauser isnt any slouch for accuracy.mine is a 1938 and shoots like i;ve never seen.i have seen them on guns america once in a while.

The fun thing about 22's is that there are a lot of really great ones out there. Besides the Anschutz models there are old Mauser 340's & 350's, 1922 Spflds, Win 52's, Rem 37's and 40X's, along with the Coopers, Kimbers, CZ's, Ruger 77/22's.

Enough to keep Loonies drooling for quite a while...

DF

I got lucky on an oldr 54. It had been on the consignment rack of a local gun store for a few weeks, apparently because most local shooters thought the "California-style" stock was weird. Got it for around $700.

The great thing about it is that not only does it shoot high-grade ammo very well (of course) but it shoots cheap ammo amost as well. My wife uses it for ground squirrel shooting with Federal bulk-pack Champion hollow-points. It will normally put 5 into less than half an inch at 100, often in one ragged hole.

I remember seeing Bob Zwirz's review on the then new "Savage Anschutz Model 54 Sporter" in one of the gun magazines way back when.

IIRC he was trying to tell folks that even though it had the Savage name on it, it was still a good rifle. Honest.

What was the Savage affiliation with Anschutz?

Savage was the U.S. importer for a while.

You gouger....



Travis

Yeah. That's what mine actually is, but I refuse to admit it.

I may take a dremel to the word Savage on the receiver..



Travis

Just keep telling yourself, it's an Anschutz, it's an Anschutz and maybe the Salvage taint will eventually slip from your mind...

DF

Mule deer..that is impressive indeed!

Have 2 1422's (54 action) sporters. They both shoot exceptionally well.

It really is a [bleep] thing having "Savage" on it... I know a guy who doesn't care though, and would probably buy it off of you anyway (what a moron).

You guys here have talked me into a 54... Pics when I get it

Travis,

Just be sure to use a genuine, German-made, high-quality Dremel, and you will be uber-OK.

I got my Savage Annie for a song because the shop priced it as a used Savage bolt 22. Luckily I'd seen one in a certain article in a Rifle, and knew what I was looking at

Now we're talkin'.

If you fall on really hard times, I'll take it off your hands.



Travis

I used a Pakistani dental pick to scratch out the word "Chinah" on my Dremel.

Should work good enough.



Travis

I think the Savage -Anschutz has a cool factor. Have a friend with an Ithaca-Perrazzi bird gun. Certainly it is not a 70's Ithaca.

Flave, whered you get your 64 from?

Some piss drunk cock in the midwest.




Travis

That narrows it down to about 30,000,000

You didn't have to suck it out of a hose did ya?

Suck what out?

I bought mine on the classifieds.



Travis

Gotcha. Thanks.

Now that all my brothers have 54's, it's only right i step up to the plate. The search is on, if someone runs across one, let me know!

Do you have any local smallbore clubs? Wouldn't hurt to ask around one of those. Some folks buy them for their kids and the kids lose interest quickly.

Kinda like musical instruments, only more useful.



Travis

Thanks. I remember the rifles in the Savage catalogs. At the time I thought the stocks were way too much and overlooked the perfection of the mechanics.

Found me a little orphan today. Fingers were startin to get sore so I set her down for a moment for some pics. I'll figure out how to get em on here soon

what a nice little orphan....

For ultimate in accuracy a Kleinguenther KDF K22 or a Mauser 201 would be the direction I would go.......oh wait, that is what I have.
Does that make me a rimfire snob?

Thanks very much, I'm very happy with the way it looks. Now to get some glass on her and see how she shoots...

What direction you goin with glass/mounts?
There's been a lot of good info posted around here in regards to this and 54's. Poke around a bit and read some...I did and am quite pleased with my setup so far. One fella in particular has some strong opinions on how you ought ta be wringin that .22 out grin..
I drank the kool-aid and it was good.
DIP 25 moa rail, leopold prw, and a 16x SS I had on hand.

Photobucket isn't workin but I'll post a pic when I can

Anyone here have any experience with a good Anschutz trigger guy? Been readin up on other forums and seen Neal Stepp's name (I.S.S.) come up on multiple occasions with high recommendations.

Looks like mine has a 5109 two-stage on it, and from what I read the stock configuration on it allows a range of between 2 and 4.5 lbs., which correlates to what I'm experiencing... not exactly warm n fuzzy on that.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks huntsman! I'm very pleased with the look and feel, and with the initial groups. Hoping to do a little better after some trigger work!

Very nice rifle and scope but personally I think the scope is too tactical looking for the nice sporter rifle. Both top quality, but for my taste, it would need a sleeker classic gloss scope.

I feel the same way, but in order to have a viable range from between 50 and 300+ yards, rumor has it that this is the best way to go (as far as scope/rail is concerned). I may investigate a different stock in the future. I'll see how this set-up connects the dots and if I'm not all fuzzified I may return this gun to a sporter set-up and try again with a slightly more appropriate platform.

Nice Anschutz there Fiddy. I have a 5-30x50 tactical on my 1727F Fortner and it looks very nice. Now that you have a Anschutz, you will probably catch the bug. The Cooper is nice,that's probably next for me. The Fortner F27A holds the world record btw,Du Li of China posted a 594 in 3 pos. at Doha in 2012

The Fortners lock time is extremely fast and a Heym Fortner centerfire action has been tested to 175,000 psi

Whatever works for you. I have no interest in shooting a 22 RF over 100 yards. Maybe it's from my target days of 25 and 50 yards. I prefer shooting one hole groups at short range than playing with drop and wind in a platform I will never use for anything than just play, at that distance.

Flave,
That beat up old S/A 64 looks familiar to this piss drunk midwest cock. Too bad you will never be able to wring out any really good performance from it.
I always prefer the old S/ A 54s , 153s and the few mannlicher stocked guns they made.
if one is to talk Mauser .22s the Mm410 b is the one to own. Supposed to compete with the 52 and they do shoot pretty damn good. Can;t put a scope on them unless you want it 4" over the bore.
Chuck

Chuck,

It is quite the machine. It is happy here in MT.



Travis

the nice thing about the SWFA on a rimfire, even at 50 or 100, is that the clicks give exactly what they advertise. turn the knobs, walk the bullets wherever you want to ... then turn them back and be exactly where you started.

Travis,
I hated to sell it so cheap.......... but my wife needed the money.
Best,
Chuck

My 1422 (Pre 1700 Models) Anschutz Meister Grade (54 action) W/6.5 to 20 Leupold Scope ...



Shoots pretty good with mid-grade ammo @ 50 yards..



I laser engraved range settings in meters, and yards on sun shade for silhouette shoots, and squirrel hunting (and it's shot a lot of them).



I had a Anschutz 64 Silhouette gun for about 10 years but sold it when the wife quit shooting matches. It shot VERY close to as accurate as the 54.

It's a great gun, but for hunting a Marlin 39 CL is my go to, it's way lighter to carry, and 1/5th the price ...



Marlin @ 50 yards...

Looks like we're on opposite ends of the RF spectrum. I've lost some of my interest in punching single holes at close range and am looking forward to the integration of more skill-based factors. It's like you said: whatever works for you.

Thanks for making me feel inadequate!! Damn those look nice... I've got the bug, yep. As for stepping up to the Fortner plate, well that'll still be a while off if ever. I've plinked around on a Cooper or two and find them very nice indeed, but I've got what I've got for now and would like to see what materializes. I'll post target pics in a couple weeks.

Yep, the infallible tracking (among several other factors) is why I chose SWFA. Lots of good words been spread about the campfire on 'em.

Anyway, congrats on the rifle and scope. Very nice set up despite personal preferences.

I took the chance on a rougher gun which had already been chopped. I fixed up the stock a bit (there was a crack up front and some dings) and then gave it a quick spray with the Whatchagot Green rattle can I found in the garage. It is crude, yes, but then the peace afforded to not having to think about scuffs, etc., can be tangible. The groups it makes are not so crude




The above 54 came with a second full-length barreled action, which I let set around a couple months until deciding I should figure out what to do with it. A gunsmith down in Southern California said he had a bolt he could marry to it, so I sent it down to have the bore inspected for viability. Once approved (the interior was excellent - the exterior was around 90%), he shortened the barrel, hit the whole deal with cerakote, and set it into a stock. I've had it out to the range twice in the last two weekends with 1/2-3/4 moa results at 50, but it has been gusty so I think it'll go better weather permitting.



Anyone know what the threaded hold in the right side of the green stock is?

Then the choice between a 54 and a 64 is easy.

54.