Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Compare the 35 Whelen with the 338WM and 9.3x62.

Great info Mule deer, thank you. I have owned two .35 Whelen's and enjoyed shooting them. I might have to give the 9.3X62 a go.

Ed,

The most bullets I�ve seen put into one buffalo was 11. The first was a very highly regarded 300-grain bullet from a .375 H&H factory load that my partner placed perfectly on the shoulder of a broadside bull. The bull took off into the brush, along with the rest of the herd, and we gave him an hour, then followed. After 150 yards he jumped, going away and very lively. At that point the brush got even thicker and the two PH�s asked us to stay behind. Over the next hour they put 10 solids in him, from a .416 Rigby and a .458 Express (a stretched version of the .458 Lott) before the bull gave up. Turned out the .375 had broken the shoulder and expanded perfectly, but for some reason had spun inside and ended up at the rear of the ribs on the same side, only penetrating one lung.

But that�s beside my original point. My point is that when hunting in a foreign country (especially a Third World country, whether in Africa or even Mexico) I try to abide by the local laws. They can be arbitrary and enforcement can be capricious, so why ask for trouble by bringing a rifle that doesn�t meet the regulations, even if it will do the job?

Ed,

Just realized you thought my post on the .35 Whelen was ONLY a reply to you. Instead it was meant as a general comment on the .35 Whelen/9.3x62 argument.

Wow! I gotta slow them Hornadies down a wee bit!

Actually, when I started handloading for mine, I was pushing the 286 Hornady over 58 grains of RL-15 at a tad over 2400 fps. That's what I used on the wounded bruin at about 10 feet. it entered behind the right ribs and made exit at the base of the skull after taking out 3 inches of vertebrae. That stopped the bruin in three feet of tall grass.

But the interesting thing, as far as bullet performance was concerned, was that none of that was noted before pulling off the hide. The exit hole in the thick folds of fur and hide at the back of the head was only little more than bullet-size but the massive wound under the hide surprised me... nothing exterior that would have suggested that. There were no bullet fragments so I expect the Hornady made its exit mostly in one piece. With an impact velocity of close to 2400 fps, penetration of over two feet, taking our 3-inches of vertebrae - not too bad in my judgement.

And the fact that at an MV of 2360 it performed flawlessly on a cow nilgai at 200 yards where velocity had dropped to around 2000 fps speaks volumns as well. Thanks John.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob,

That's a very interesting report, and more evidence of why the 9.3x62 gained a lot of respect a century ago in Africa, long before "premium" bullets existed. While not exactly a long-range load, the old 286 does penetrate well.

Have also found a premium 250 spitzer at 2650 or so (when loaded to .30-06 pressures) duplicates the trajectory of the 180-grain .30-06 factory load, making 400-yard shots easy.

Interesting answer from Sports Afield/Kevin Robertson.

"
The .35 Whelen in Africa
Question:

What are the suitable applications for the .35 Whelen in Africa? Especially with 275-and 310-grain Woodleighs?

Answer:

Your question is well timed because I am currently with Monty Kalogeras at his Safari Shooting School in Mason County, Texas. There is a very nice .35 Whelen here I have just shot. It is Monty's elk rifle of choice, with 250-grainers. This is fortunate because this is not a popular cartridge in Africa and I like to have personally shot all the cartridges I'm asked to write about.

I have long been a fan of the 9.3 x 62mm, which is very close to the .35 Whelen. My Nine Three, as we call it, now has in excess of 650 buffalo to its credit. This is because this caliber (.366) is the legal minimum for the thick-skinned heavyweights in Zimbabwe --the country where I hunted professionally for two decades. I liked 300-grainers for buffalo, and with 286-grainers this rifle was also my favorite Zambezi Valley antelope rifle.

Unfortunately .358 (the .35 Whelen) is not a legal thick-skinned dangerous-game caliber in Africa, and this limits its application out there. But having said that, the .35 Whelen would be a fine choice for all the antelope species all the way up to eland up to about 200 paces. Almost 90 percent of all shots at antelope in Africa are within this distance so you would be well covered with this cartridge. In fact, I think it is a good choice and I have already said so a number of times in my book, The Perfect Shot.

With this in mind, good 250-grainers at about 2,500 fps would be my bullet weight of choice (instead of 275s or 310s) for all the antelope species, and good enough for shots out to that distance, maybe even a bit more if need be.

When sighted in dead-on at 200 with 250-grainers at 2,500 fps, Monty's .35 Whelen is 3 inches high at 100, 6 low at 250, 12 low at 300, 18 low at 350, and 34 low at 400. This is his elk sight setting and it would also work a treat for African areas where the shots are longer.

This cartridge would also work well for the cats, especially leopard and even lion over a bait with the right type of bullets. While I have no doubt that with good 310-grainers it would also work OK on buffalo, I cannot recommend this due to the legality factor.

SU35,
Thanks for the link to the article. Never read anything from Mr. Robertson. How old is that article?

Very interesting read since I'm a new owner of a 35 Whelen and am looking forward to hunting North America with it. I don't have plans to ever go to the Dark Continent so the 9.3 doesn't interest me.

I agree as well, if I ever get the chance to hunt for Cape buffalo which is extremely unlikely I'll spring for a new gun. The 35 Whelen does everything I need to do around here.

Yep, if you don't plan to hunt Africa the .35 Whelen is plenty--and the .338 Winchester more practical than the 9.3x62.

Yep, they are all good in their own way.

I am very hesitant to post this but will. Please don't derogate me, I am just passing along information I got from many very experienced African professionals. I have had the good fortune to make 19 trips, so have visited with many great professionals.
This business of legal cartridges: to the man, I have never had one of these experienced professionals make much of a fuss about the cartridge. Rather, they had two primary questions. First, can the guy shoot it well and two is he using really good bullets.
One of these guys had been named the SCI professional hunter of the year. He worked in Zimbabwe and Tanzania. I mention him because he had lots of numbers of hunters on long and expensive trips under his belt. His first choice for visiting hunter to use on Buffalo was a 338 Winchester with 250 grain Nosler partitions. He was very explicit about this combination. He said he had less problems with that combination than with those who used a 375. He thought it was easier to get in a good first hit than the 375, not that there was any magic in the 338. I doubt that he would write this for publication but he was quite willing to tell me that over drinks. He said that when hunters used anything bigger than a 375, that the number of situations that he had to "sort out" only increased. Every single pro I have met is most concerned about anybody who brings something bigger than a 375 for buffalo.
Several years ago I was asked if I would shoot a problem elephant in Zimbabwe. The only rifle I brought was my 270. Of course, this situation involved a lot of game rangers because the elephant in question had been raiding citrus orchards owned by a government official. The shooting was at night. Their camp rifle was a 338. I asked them if it was enough and they looked at me like I was from another planet. The universal response was, "yes it will be fine if you shoot well". The back up guns were full auto 308's.
The game scouts keep track of the number of animals shot. They keep to themselves. Never had one show the slightest interest in the cartridge I was using. Again, they were interested in the hunters ability to keep up and then to shoot well. It worked wonders if they were thanked and shown some respect.
The other thing that gained a lot of points was basic gun handling safety.
I think the visiting hunters most likely to get in trouble are the jackass type who are rude, disrespectful, and impatient. Then get ready for anything.

Nice post. Did the elephant get a taste of the full auto lifestyle or not?

Do any manufactures currently chamber this cartridge?

So....How did that 338 do on the Elephant?

Rick,

Good post--and it reflects the conversations with PH's I've had over there as well.

In fact the most experienced PH I've hunted with often found himself outgunned by his clients when after buffalo, because by preference he used his .375 H&H, a very nice Mauser that had been one of Ben Musgrave's personal rifles. He couldn't recall how many buffalo he'd had to "sort out" with his .375 that his clients had wounded with rifles chambered for larger cartridges. (He also shrugged when asked what bullets he prefers in the .375 for buffalo, because he mostly uses whatever ammo his clients leave behind in camp, and "these days the bullets are all good." Since he guides buffalo hunters in the thick stuff in Zim, any tiny differences in point of impact don't matter.)

On the other hand, the question of what's permissible isn't always the PH's to decide. In some countries a government game scout goes along to oversee everything. But the scout can also say OK to a smaller-than-legal round, and often does when a little extra money crosses his palm.

The people I've encountered who are REALLY adamant about larger cartridges in Africa, whether for plains or dangerous game, are usually American safari hunters, who firmly believe a .30-06 is "marginal" on animals like gemsbok, wildebeest and zebra, and a .375 H&H is a popgun on large, dangerous game.

John,
Nobody talks safari cartridges like US hunters. They talk about it non-stop while hunting and at the campfire and during meals and while I am trying to appreciate the entire experience. Goodness.

The professional I have hunted with the most thinks a 30/06 is just fine for pretty much everything if the hunter can shoot. Bad shot...get ready for a rodeo. The exception is hunting elephants in very thick cover. Then he likes a heavy double. He uses a 375 for backup on buffalo and cats.

The game scouts really appreciate a stipend! Really!
Rick

John,
One last comment. Most PH's are more fearful of being shot by their client than they are fearful of the critters.

I don't think that fear is unique to African PH's. I've know 'hunters' I'd never go hunting with because of their carelessness. For Guides everywhere it's a risk.

I took a friend groundhog hunting and let him borrow my 30-06 loaded with 125gr SP. Him,another friend and myself were walking down a fence row when we unexpectedly jumped a groundhog we didn't see munching on some thick clover. The friend I had lent my 30-06 to had the rifle go off before he got it to his shoulder and I could here the bullet wiz by my head. I went over and emptied the rifle and told him he could carry it that way till he learned to keep his finger off the trigger and not to take it off safe till he was ready to shoot. Needles to say he never went hunting with me after that.