I am thinking that there will be no change in caliber. The girls and nancy boys that are filling the service rosters now can't shoot anything with power, and as was mentioned, NO handgun cartridge is really a stopper. I'm betting that they have been hoarding all the .22 LR ammo, with plans in mind to switch to that caliber.
You may have a point Sam.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
On the lethality of handgun ammo, obviously an article or two has been written on that, but back around 1913 or so the Germans figured out that if they put a small flat point on their 9mm Parabellum it gave the bullet a far greater shocking effect than a round nose. IIRC the picture accompanying that article showed a truncated cone with a tiny flat point by today's standards, but even that produces a greater trauma than a round nose that pushes aside tissue.
Be that as it may, a lot of handgunners over the years have proven the worth of a flat point SWC style bullet on game of all types. As long as the military has to stay with a FMJ, is there any convention or treaty that says it has to be a round nose?
On the other issue, as much as I like the old 1911 it's probably time to go to a Glock since they definitely keep on shooting. Probably need to have a frame mounted ambi-safety ala the 1911. Maybe add a cocking indicator. And a grip safety. Hmm, anybody ever looked at a Springfield XD?
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
This quote, taken from the aforementioned article, reveals the illusion of a man stopper handgun cartridge, except, of course, for Rancho_Loco. He teaches the experts all about the great myth of mangun stoppers.
"I don't think anybody would argue that shot placement is the most important for terminal ballistics," Langdon said. "Even though you say a .45 is better than a 9mm, it's still a pistol caliber. Chances are if it is a determined adversary, they are going to have to be shot multiple times regardless of the caliber."
That with the greatest probability of of ending a gunfight is a CNS hit, and that's not 100%, exclusive of the cerebellum. A bad guy with his heart no longer pumping can live 8 seconds, long enough to make a good guy room temperature.
The only sure way of surviving a gunfight is to not get in one. That's my primary rule of gunfighting. I'll avoid and walk away.
One of my rules for 98.6 degrees -it's way up there in terms of importance but I'm not sure of its numerical rank- is that in defensive handguns, bigger is better. The more blood out & the more air in and the faster they occur the better.
Back on topic: I'm with you here, Mink. Army should have never abandoned its loyal, tried, and true friend. The 1911A1 in .45 ACP is the king of battle handguns, except, of course, for Rancho_Loco.
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.� ***US President James Madison***
Mink: I knew the transition (bribery?) to the 9mm was not going to be successful back when it happened. Shame so much tax dollars will be wasted. The 1911 45 is hard to beat for combat/self defense. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
On the other issue, as much as I like the old 1911 it's probably time to go to a Glock since they definitely keep on shooting. Probably need to have a frame mounted ambi-safety ala the 1911. Maybe add a cocking indicator. And a grip safety. Hmm, anybody ever looked at a Springfield XD?
Yes, and just like Sigs, they don't hold up, yet. The XD is a new platform, and might just be the one to beat. Nothing Sig makes will hold up, and they are an armorer's nightmare.
My son is in an outfit with the Navy and he uses the 45 acp in what ever pistol/suppressor he likes at the moment. But they are chambered in 45. Seems that the Marines were going back to that caliber a while back.
"The M9 doesn't meet it for a multitude of reasons," Easlick said. "It's got reliability issues; the open slide design allows contaminates in. The slide-mounted safety doesn't do well when you are trying to clear a stoppage -- you inadvertently de-cock and safe the weapon system."
I figured this out the first 15 minutes I had one of these in hand.
I don't ever see anything replacing my 1911 45.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
The original solicitation outlines some of the features the Corps stipulated, such as a single-stack, 7+ round magazine, drop in parts replacement and accuracy guidelines. It remains to be seen how many of these points made it into the requirements document and the actual pistol, however. For example, drop-in parts on a 1911 pattern pistol is widely regarded as an unrealistic requirement.
Does this mean that parts have to be hand fitted?
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
Of course, excellent shot placement is desired. But it has to be good guy shot placement. Bad guy shot placement must be avoided if a good guy wants to go home. Therefore, it is better to not hit the bad guy (tactical movement) if the bad guy doesn't hit the good guy. Hence, a good guy trading his life for a bad guy's ain't a wise gunfight rule.
If you're in a gunfight, it's because a bad guy wants to kill you. It's a pretty wise idea to not help him accomplish his goal. Therefore, never be a good target. Weaver stance, target acquisition, sight alignment, squeeze trigger is old school that should've never made it to class.
Another good gunfight rule that seems to predominate is O'Reilly's Postulate: Murphy was an optimist!
I ain't sure, but I think guys were gun slingers of practical gunfightin' knowledge of the 70's:
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.� ***US President James Madison***
The original solicitation outlines some of the features the Corps stipulated, such as a single-stack, 7+ round magazine, drop in parts replacement and accuracy guidelines. It remains to be seen how many of these points made it into the requirements document and the actual pistol, however. For example, drop-in parts on a 1911 pattern pistol is widely regarded as an unrealistic requirement.
Does this mean that parts have to be hand fitted?
Duhh! This has ALWAYS been a requirement for a 1911. That is why that gun costs over two grand
Would be nice to see them back with the .45, but I see them going with a .40. No real reason other than they will use the excuse that they could use LEO's ammo, which around here seems to be predominantly .40 cal.
Whichever they go with, stock up on ammo and components NOW.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
SF CIF companies went to Glocks, both 9mm and 40 S&W, quite a while back. They can access Army inventory 9mm for training and carry the 40's for combat.
As you stated, the gun NEEDS to be a double stack. A Glock 21 is too big for many.
Going back to a 1911 would be like going back to Cocoran Jump Boots and cotton shelter-halves. They both sucked way back when, and they would suck even harder today. The Quantico-built 1911's the MARSOC guys had broke constantly. Their new guns cost over two-grand each, and the one MARSOC guy I talked to recently said he'd swap it for a Glock in a heartbeat.
THE answer, IMO, is a Glock 37 in 45 GAP. That by-passes the large frame issue (G19/17 frame size), has adequate capacity (ten rounds) is cheap, and most importantly, won't break. The Army doesn't have much 45acp ammo left, or 9mm for that matter. Current ammo stores could be quickly depleted by current service guns as the new guns/ammo were brought on line.
You really believe your own line of schit. You are a complete idiot
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -Thomas Jefferson
I have reviewed a lot of officer involved shootings in the course of the last 10 years or so. 45 ACP, 40 SW, 9mm, 10mm, 38 Special, 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 357 Magnum. Every one of those calibers has failed to stop armed felons before the felons could do more harm. I've debriefed a bunch of cops and military personnel who have given me their stories freely, and the common denominator is shot placement.
Unless you put your handgun bullets into vital anatomy, they won't do any good. Police departments that train their officers in anatomically correct shot placement have found caliber isn't as important as they thought it was.
45 ACP is not the answer, nor is the 1911. I think the 45 is a great cartridge and it would be my choice if I were the guy choosing it. A modernized update of the 1911 single stack concept such as the SIG P220 would be a good choice, but so would others.
The answer lies in training, not in hardware. Our SF guys know this, as do a lot of the better PD's in America.
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