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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 265
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 265 |
Where is our POTUS...at a fund raiser
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
Don't be so hard on Obama. Remember he is semi-retired.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 265
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 265 |
I am amazed at the LACK of outcry from others here, locals, and national media. Looks as if the US citizens who were MURDERED by the Russian backed group died in vain. HANG you head in SHAME.
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 634
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 634 |
They have a history of shooting down airliners. This one makes number 3.
Korean Air Lines Flight 902 on April 20, 1978
Korean Air Lines Flight 007 on September 1, 1983...Congressman Larry McDonald was killed in that one.
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556 |
Obama will talk about it while he is on the golf course. We are doomed.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,608
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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I doubt the Russians had any involvement. Nothing to gain from it.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
I doubt the Russians had any involvement. Nothing to gain from it. Agreed..No doubt it's their hardware but my gut tells me from all accounts the airliner was targeted by mistake as the rebels have already dispatched several Ukrainian fast movers in the same airspace.Putin opened pandora's box and now can't close it.
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
I doubt the Russians had any involvement. Nothing to gain from it. Wouldn't surprise me if a couple of troopers out of uniform were responsible...look for a couple of dead separatists to turn up with confessions pinned to their chests, conveniently.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,698
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,698 |
I'm still believing that the 'Russian separatists' are nothing more than Russian troops in other clothes. They are Russian military led, trained and tasked. Russia used these exact methods in the business with Georgia, and the Crimea. That means, that Russians, not Ukrainians shot the plane down. Mistake? maybe/maybe not, but it was Russians doing the shooting, with Russian equipment. Obama gets the news............ ![[Linked Image]](http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Mannlicher/obamagolf1.jpg)
Last edited by Mannlicher; 07/18/14.
Sam......
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,614 |
A. The Separatists have the hardware and are Russian supplied and trained.
B. Over the course of the last few weeks, said group has shot down an AN-26, SU-25 and a helo. The separatists have been boasting about this.
C. They have warned not to fly over their airspace
D. IMMEDIATELY after the shootdown, one of their leaders (former Russian Colonel) boasted about it on Twitter and FB then promptly took it down
The are FACTS, not assumptions.
I think even the most simple minded here can deduce the following
Russian trained, Russian equipped and Russian adviced..I don't think the Russians themselves had anything to do with punching the "FIRE" button. This looks like a case of a HUGE [bleep] by the separatists mistaking the airliner for an Ukrainian transport.
The blood is equally on the hands of Putin and the separatists. Pretty simple.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
I'm still believing that the 'Russian separatists' are nothing more than Russian troops in other clothes. They are Russian military led, trained and tasked.
Russia used these exact methods in the business with Georgia, and the Crimea.
That means, that Russians, not Ukrainians shot the plane down. Mistake? maybe/maybe not, but it was Russians doing the shooting, with Russian equipment. Spot on. The rumor is that the separatists recently captured the missile launcher from the Ukrainians but from all the info I've heard it's not a simple system to operate. Whether it's the captured missile system or not somebody knew how to use it and that can only be a Russian military "advisor". The story that they intended to shoot down a military transport but oopsie they got a passenger jet instead is credible to me. It was unintended major screw up. Putin has already begun to cover his azz by calling for a cease fire. I have no doubt that he strongly disapproves of a passenger jet being shot down. Whoever did it is probably on his way to a Siberian gulag and will never be heard from again.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
A. The Separatists have the hardware and are Russian supplied and trained.
B. Over the course of the last few weeks, said group has shot down an AN-26, SU-25 and a helo. The separatists have been boasting about this.
C. They have warned not to fly over their airspace
D. IMMEDIATELY after the shootdown, one of their leaders (former Russian Colonel) boasted about it on Twitter and FB then promptly took it down
The are FACTS, not assumptions.
I think even the most simple minded here can deduce the following
Russian trained, Russian equipped and Russian adviced..I don't think the Russians themselves had anything to do with punching the "FIRE" button. This looks like a case of a HUGE [bleep] by the separatists mistaking the airliner for an Ukrainian transport.
The blood is equally on the hands of Putin and the separatists. Pretty simple. Good analysis Jorge and spot on.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
A. The Separatists have the hardware and are Russian supplied and trained.
B. Over the course of the last few weeks, said group has shot down an AN-26, SU-25 and a helo. The separatists have been boasting about this.
C. They have warned not to fly over their airspace
D. IMMEDIATELY after the shootdown, one of their leaders (former Russian Colonel) boasted about it on Twitter and FB then promptly took it down
The are FACTS, not assumptions.
I think even the most simple minded here can deduce the following
Russian trained, Russian equipped and Russian adviced..I don't think the Russians themselves had anything to do with punching the "FIRE" button. This looks like a case of a HUGE [bleep] by the separatists mistaking the airliner for an Ukrainian transport.
The blood is equally on the hands of Putin and the separatists. Pretty simple. Sometimes having a proxy doing your dirty work can have drawbacks. The Russians certainly have nothing to gain with this screw up, but they are certainly responsible to some (maybe large) degree.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,608
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,608 |
So what do the Russians gain from having a proxy shoot down an airliner over Ukrainian airspace? How has this assisted the Russians?
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Were you born retarded or did it just happen?
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Were you born retarded or did it just happen? He is a self made man...you can tell by the workmanship.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
So what do the Russians gain from having a proxy shoot down an airliner over Ukrainian airspace? How has this assisted the Russians? I said the Russians DO NOT have anything to gain with this event.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,608
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,608 |
So what do the Russians gain from having a proxy shoot down an airliner over Ukrainian airspace? How has this assisted the Russians? I said the Russians DO NOT have anything to gain with this event. I was referring to the person who suggested that it was done clandestinely at the behest of the Russians, i.e., Russians by proxy. If that wasn't you, then I wasn't addressing you. PS Looking back, it was actually you, so what's your complaint? You actually did suggest it was a Russian proxy deal. So I ask again, what do the Russians gain from it? You say nothing, but then also in the same breath suggest it was the Russians by proxy. That's contradictory. PPS "The truth is the first casualty of war." - Aeschylus
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
My gut feeling is the same a Jorge's..I doubt Putin ever gave a direct order and is probably ready to string somebody up over this..
That said, we need to let the investigation take place and follow the hard evidence. There are crazies on both sides over there, and there are definately those with a lot to gain if they managed to frame the Russians..
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
The separitists are essentially serving as a proxy fighting for the Russians in the Ukraine. What's hard to figure out about that? I never suggested the Russians had someone else shoot an airliner down for them.
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