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sherp,
Of the thousands of cops I've known in my life, maybe a small handful were liberals.
I know of no cop who'd support disarming Americans. That's why were Americans to be disarmed, it'll be the military that does it. I never said police were liberals. Ronald Reagan was not a liberal, but he supported banning the carry of firearms by civilians when he signed the Mulford Act in to law, when he signed the 1986 machine gun ban in to law, and when the supported Brady and the 1994 assault weapon law. Conservatives routinely support firearms safety laws so why don't you get your claims in order. I am sure the military would be involved, but just like during Katrina, the police would be there helping out.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Mannlicher,
It ain't cops who make laws. Politicians make 'em. It ain't cops who make regulations. It's bureaucrats who make 'em. Cops are required to enforce laws and abide by regulations. Blame ain't with cops. It's with politicians & bureaucrats. "I was only following orders" didn't work at Nuremberg, Raisuli. TRH, It is spurious to compare USA cops with Nazi Brown Shirts. Cops are not obligated to follow an illegal order. In fact, a cop who commits a crime by following an illegal order cannot use following illegal orders a defense to his alleged crime. If an order is legal, then the problem lies with politicians who created stupid laws or bureaucrats to created illegal regulations. In fact, administrative regulations, which have force of law, should be illegal. Ya gotta know where blame lies, and it ain't with a cop doing his lawful duty.
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.�
***US President James Madison***
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Sorry dude. I am not going to take the time for that challenge. I only point out that the data is suspect because of the source. You posted it as if it has assumed authority, and I question it because of it's obvious bias and because bare statistics are never to be trusted. That is all. Why do you not support the police mentioned on that site? You would support an officer shown on video to be doing things that would put them on their tally sheet wouldn't you?
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Joined: Apr 2014
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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sherp,
Of the thousands of cops I've known in my life, maybe a small handful were liberals.
I know of no cop who'd support disarming Americans. That's why were Americans to be disarmed, it'll be the military that does it. I never said police were liberals. Ronald Reagan was not a liberal, but he supported banning the carry of firearms by civilians when he signed the Mulford Act in to law, when he signed the 1986 machine gun ban in to law, and when the supported Brady and the 1994 assault weapon law. Conservatives routinely support firearms safety laws so why don't you get your claims in order. There is nothing more deceptive than Ronald Reagan signing the Mumfort Act. At the time, Black Panthers were exploiting law to carry guns to intimidate and murder. The Black Panthers were very bit as bad if not worse than the KKK. Ronald Reagan's intent was to give cops a tool to arrest Black Panthers. BTW, I don't agree with the law, not do I agree with any gun control law except those affecting violent felons.
�If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.�
***US President James Madison***
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I support myself and no one else . So you are a POS liberal/libertarian. Did you vote 3rd party or just go ahead and vote Obama? When i vote this year , I'm going to vote for the best man for the job, I'm going to write myself in on the ticket.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Sam, I think the NACOP gets confused with the IACPa lot of the time. Slightly different agendas and different membership demographics. "International Association of Chiefs of Police Position Paper on Firearm Violence" Now, find us a NACP member that tells and IACP member to screw off when they need help with anything. That should be easy - since IACP membership includes police from outside the US, who are obviously not interested in any of our constitutional concepts. The IACP president is a Texan. Their position on firearms has not changed, nor has it turned off US police.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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I am going to have to say I was wrong in the opening post here. I made reference to police chiefs being much the same as Mass. Another example of 'open mouth, insert foot', so to speak The National Association of Chiefs of Police official web site should be indicative of how Police Chiefs feel across the country, and according to them: FIREARMS
14. Should any vetted citizen be able to purchase a firearm for sport or self-defense? .....................................................Yes 86.8% No 11.1% N/A 2.1%
15. Would national recognition of state-issued concealed weapons permits facilitate the violent crime fighting
efforts of the professional law enforcement community? ...................................................................................................Yes 63.1% No 31.8% N/A 5.1%
16. Can qualified, law-abiding armed citizens help law enforcement reduce violent criminal activity? .......................... Yes 72.7% No 23.6% N/A 3.7%
17. Does your department use reality based/active shooter training? ..................................................................................Yes 78.1% No 21.1% N/A .8%
18. Does your department sell confiscated firearms to help meet budget needs or cover budget shortfalls? ...................Yes 19% No 79.6% N/A 1.5% Should have done my research up front. This is from their 25th annual national survey. http://www.nacoponline.org/25th.pdf While NACoP's positions appear better than the larger and older IAoCoP I still see many qualifiers of who they deem to allow arms: vetted, permit, qualified, and state-issued I thinks that translated into Constitutionalese the Chiefs' qualifiers are what is called infringements. Even this 'RKBA friendly' police organization is an advocate for 'shall be infringed' rather than 'shall not be infringed.'
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I support myself and no one else . So you are a POS liberal/libertarian. Did you vote 3rd party or just go ahead and vote Obama? When i vote this year , I'm going to vote for the best man for the job, I'm going to write myself in on the ticket. So you will vote in such a way as to support the democrat since you are not voting for the most electable republican.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Campfire 'Bwana
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at the moment there are no electable Republicans
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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sherp,
Of the thousands of cops I've known in my life, maybe a small handful were liberals.
I know of no cop who'd support disarming Americans. That's why were Americans to be disarmed, it'll be the military that does it. I never said police were liberals. Ronald Reagan was not a liberal, but he supported banning the carry of firearms by civilians when he signed the Mulford Act in to law, when he signed the 1986 machine gun ban in to law, and when the supported Brady and the 1994 assault weapon law. Conservatives routinely support firearms safety laws so why don't you get your claims in order. There is nothing more deceptive than Ronald Reagan signing the Mumfort Act. At the time, Black Panthers were exploiting law to carry guns to intimidate and murder. The Black Panthers were very bit as bad if not worse than the KKK. Ronald Reagan's intent was to give cops a tool to arrest Black Panthers. BTW, I don't agree with the law, not do I agree with any gun control law except those affecting violent felons. It is Mulford, not Mumfort. If you can't get that right.... So why did Reagan, not go after the Black Panthers for terroristic threatening and murder? Are you trying to claim those acts were legal so they had to ban carry so they would have a reason to arrest those committing murder and making threats? The reason why was he wanted a prohibition on firearms for all civilians. A focus he never changed during his lifetime as you pointed out.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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at the moment there are no electable Republicans They stand the best chance as you know and if you do not vote for them you vote for the democrat. How do you like your man Obama?
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Campfire Outfitter
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Sorry dude. I am not going to take the time for that challenge. I only point out that the data is suspect because of the source. You posted it as if it has assumed authority, and I question it because of it's obvious bias and because bare statistics are never to be trusted. That is all. Why do you not support the police mentioned on that site? You would support an officer shown on video to be doing things that would put them on their tally sheet wouldn't you? I'm not sure what your actual question is there, Sherp. I do not trust any statistics from any website that is agenda-driven, and neither should you. Statistics are meaningless without context. Those of you who back your arguments by offering such stand-alone statistics are using a weak tactic that usually does not stand up to scrutiny. It is a common logical fallacy that we all see in use on these forums quite often. I am only pointing out that this fallacy doesn't bolster your argument like you think it does. I am not claiming here that the data is wrong or that your conclusion from such is wrong (although I suspect so), but that your argument is relying on a fallacy. Don't worry about it. You're in good company.....
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Sam, I think the NACOP gets confused with the IACPa lot of the time. Slightly different agendas and different membership demographics. "International Association of Chiefs of Police Position Paper on Firearm Violence" Now, find us a NACP member that tells and IACP member to screw off when they need help with anything. That should be easy - since IACP membership includes police from outside the US, who are obviously not interested in any of our constitutional concepts. The IACP president is a Texan. Their position on firearms has not changed, nor has it turned off US police. It wold be interesting to see who and where all the members are, but that does not seem to be available.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,625
Campfire Tracker
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Sorry dude. I am not going to take the time for that challenge. I only point out that the data is suspect because of the source. You posted it as if it has assumed authority, and I question it because of it's obvious bias and because bare statistics are never to be trusted. That is all. Why do you not support the police mentioned on that site? You would support an officer shown on video to be doing things that would put them on their tally sheet wouldn't you? I'm not sure what your actual question is there, Sherp. I do not trust any statistics from any website that is agenda-driven, and neither should you. Statistics are meaningless without context. Those of you who back your arguments by offering such stand-alone statistics are using a weak tactic that usually does not stand up to scrutiny. It is a common logical fallacy that we all see in use on these forums quite often. I am only pointing out that this fallacy doesn't bolster your argument like you think it does. I am not claiming here that the data is wrong or that your conclusion from such is wrong (although I suspect so), but that your argument is relying on a fallacy. Don't worry about it. You're in good company..... What political office do you hold since you simultaneously call the information a fallacy while you aren't saying it is wrong? You got backed in to a corner and you started the Clinton double speak I see.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Joined: May 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
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I am going to have to say I was wrong in the opening post here. I made reference to police chiefs being much the same as Mass. Another example of 'open mouth, insert foot', so to speak The National Association of Chiefs of Police official web site should be indicative of how Police Chiefs feel across the country, and according to them: FIREARMS
14. Should any vetted citizen be able to purchase a firearm for sport or self-defense? .....................................................Yes 86.8% No 11.1% N/A 2.1%
15. Would national recognition of state-issued concealed weapons permits facilitate the violent crime fighting
efforts of the professional law enforcement community? ...................................................................................................Yes 63.1% No 31.8% N/A 5.1%
16. Can qualified, law-abiding armed citizens help law enforcement reduce violent criminal activity? .......................... Yes 72.7% No 23.6% N/A 3.7%
17. Does your department use reality based/active shooter training? ..................................................................................Yes 78.1% No 21.1% N/A .8%
18. Does your department sell confiscated firearms to help meet budget needs or cover budget shortfalls? ...................Yes 19% No 79.6% N/A 1.5% Should have done my research up front. This is from their 25th annual national survey. http://www.nacoponline.org/25th.pdf While NACoP's positions appear better than the larger and older IAoCoP I still see many qualifiers of who they deem to allow arms: vetted, permit, qualified, and state-issued I thinks that translated into Constitutionalese the Chiefs' qualifiers are what is called infringements. Even this 'RKBA friendly' police organization is an advocate for 'shall be infringed' rather than 'shall not be infringed.' What you and Sherp seem to be overlooking is that both these organizations purport to be "chiefs of police". Appointed bureaucrats. Much like the management team in my line of work, they do not think like the rank and file.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,256
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Sorry dude. I am not going to take the time for that challenge. I only point out that the data is suspect because of the source. You posted it as if it has assumed authority, and I question it because of it's obvious bias and because bare statistics are never to be trusted. That is all. Why do you not support the police mentioned on that site? You would support an officer shown on video to be doing things that would put them on their tally sheet wouldn't you? I'm not sure what your actual question is there, Sherp. I do not trust any statistics from any website that is agenda-driven, and neither should you. Statistics are meaningless without context. Those of you who back your arguments by offering such stand-alone statistics are using a weak tactic that usually does not stand up to scrutiny. It is a common logical fallacy that we all see in use on these forums quite often. I am only pointing out that this fallacy doesn't bolster your argument like you think it does. I am not claiming here that the data is wrong or that your conclusion from such is wrong (although I suspect so), but that your argument is relying on a fallacy. Don't worry about it. You're in good company..... What political office do you hold since you simultaneously call the information a fallacy while you aren't saying it is wrong? You got backed in to a corner and you started the Clinton double speak I see. Do you not understand the difference between a logical fallacy and "wrong"? You need some remedial education. Get out your google-fu and get to work.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Posts: 4,625
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It wold be interesting to see who and where all the members are, but that does not seem to be available.
HQ is in Virginia Unless I missed any, there have been 2 non-USA presidents(Canadians) of the IACP since 1893: http://www.theiacp.org/IACP-Past-PresidentsCurrent board is almost entirely USA except for "International Vice President Chief Superintendent Barbara Fleury" from Canada. http://www.theiacp.org/Governing-BodyExecutive Staff is all USA: http://www.theiacp.org/Executive-StaffLooks to be mostly USA cops with the International part just tossed in as a token.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Campfire Sage
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,706 Likes: 17 |
Ya gotta know where blame lies, and it ain't with a cop doing his lawful duty. I blame both those who issue tyrannical orders and those who follow them. Remember, the Redcoats were merely carrying out their lawful duties when they set out to confiscate the colonist's guns and powder at Lexington and Concord.
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"cops are NOT your friends"But, but, but, but... ![[Linked Image]](http://www.oempromo.com/upload/Prod_736/Coloring-Book---Police-Officers-Are-My-Heroes_21820826.jpg) that is not what my Department of Justice produced and local police distributed coloring book says. ![[Linked Image]](http://cdn.grumpyelder.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Holder-brainwash-e1357853885112.jpg) My coloring book says that cops are my heroes. ![[Linked Image]](http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Obama+Honors+TOP+COPS+Award+Winners+White+mItlcT269kIl.jpg)
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You do not understand that "members" means everyone - not just the officers? Or are you just being obtuse?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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