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if I have grace, was it given freely, or did I do something for it?
if I believe, was it innate, or was I made to believe?
if I'm saved, did I "do" it, or was it freely given?
how did I qualify? anyone know for sure?
if I "believe" did I do something? or was it already in my DNA?
y'all need to understand your theology. ya know? Gus, salvation is by grace through faith. You have to have faith to believe what you cannot see or prove.If you believe you will ask. If you ask in faith you will receive. Asking in faith is simply asking honestly wanting to receive salvation from the Son of God.
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Ringman,I could name you a host of instructions to obey but I don't have to keep a list. I can love others as Christ has loved me and I will keep them all.
God wants you to be more focused on your connection to him then on your connection to sin.
PS
Yes, Jesus is Lord!!! So your answer is you won�t share any instructions for the, say a new believer, to obey? Once someone is focused on their connection to Jesus then what?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Everything else is religion. Religion does not save. Are you saying the instructions given by the apostles are mere religiosity? Are you saying the instructions given by the apostles are to be disregaurded?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Tracker
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Ringman,I could name you a host of instructions to obey but I don't have to keep a list. I can love others as Christ has loved me and I will keep them all.
God wants you to be more focused on your connection to him then on your connection to sin.
PS
Yes, Jesus is Lord!!! AMEN
Eating fried chicken and watermelon since 1972.
You tell me how I ought to be, yet you don't even know your own sexuality,, the philosopher,,, you know so much about nothing at all. Chuck Schuldiner
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Carpe' Scrotum
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Ringman,I could name you a host of instructions to obey but I don't have to keep a list. I can love others as Christ has loved me and I will keep them all.
God wants you to be more focused on your connection to him then on your connection to sin.
PS
Yes, Jesus is Lord!!! So your answer is you won�t share any instructions for the, say a new believer, to obey? Once someone is focused on their connection to Jesus then what? I would certainly encourage any new believer to read and study the Word of God and to pray. I consider both of these to be connection builders. By the Word of God and by the leading of the Holy Spirit you will know what to do in any situation. There are many situations in life that you will not have scripture for, but you do have the Holy Spirit to lead you. I'm not telling anyone not to know the Word of God. If you are connected to Jesus you will naturally want to learn as much as possible about him. What I am telling you is to be more focused on that connection to him than on yourself and what you can do to please him by your obedience.You please God only because by grace he has made you pleasing to him through Jesus's sacrifice. The main problem with believers is they are more sin and self conscious than conscious that they have been made righteous by Jesus's sacrifice. I can give you a bunch of instructions to keep but what would that do other than make you conscious of your inability to keep them all. This is exactly what the law did and what God intended it to accomplish. God never meant the law to accomplish righteousness. The law was given so that men could see and recognize their sin, so that they would come to know that they needed a savior.
Last edited by R_H_Clark; 07/29/14.
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After reading most of the religious threads I think most posting Christians don't have a clue about lordship. I find in God's Word a Christian is a slave of righteousness.
In Romans 6:15-18 we read,
"What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. "
When I suggest to Christians here we should obey the New Testament they enmas, instead of obeying the New Testament insturction, go into attack mode and accuse me of trying to go back to Moses' Law. It's not just here, it in most churches.
I met a young assistant pastor. He decided to actually obey the New Testament instructions. With a cpuple weeks his boss, the senior pastor, told him to either give up on this obedience stuff or be fired. He took the latter option.
You non-belevers pick a New Testament instruction and post it here and see who actually obeys. Remember it was the chruch of Jesus' day who killed him. "most posting Christians don't have a clue about lordship" Hmmm....me thinks there's something in that BOOK that talks about....NOT JUDGING OTHERS!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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I don't see why there are so many churches all over the country. Apparently, all that is needed is for everybody to let Ringman tell them what God wants them to do. Easy peasy. All hail the prophet Ringman (PBUH).
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After reading most of the religious threads I think most posting Christians don't have a clue about lordship. I find in God's Word a Christian is a slave of righteousness.
In Romans 6:15-18 we read,
"What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. "
When I suggest to Christians here we should obey the New Testament they enmas, instead of obeying the New Testament insturction, go into attack mode and accuse me of trying to go back to Moses' Law. It's not just here, it in most churches.
I met a young assistant pastor. He decided to actually obey the New Testament instructions. With a cpuple weeks his boss, the senior pastor, told him to either give up on this obedience stuff or be fired. He took the latter option.
You non-belevers pick a New Testament instruction and post it here and see who actually obeys. Remember it was the chruch of Jesus' day who killed him. "most posting Christians don't have a clue about lordship" Hmmm....me thinks there's something in that BOOK that talks about....NOT JUDGING OTHERS!! I do not even like your translation that you are quoting from. the King James does not say that we have become "slaves of righteousness", it says "we have become servants of righteousness." Notice that Romans 6:18 in the King James says servants "of" righteousness, not servants "to" righteousness. Your translation seems to contradict Romans 8:15 of the King James which says, 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
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Campfire Ranger
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"most posting Christians don't have a clue about lordship"
Hmmm....me thinks there's something in that BOOK that talks about....NOT JUDGING OTHERS!!
Are You sure you have all the facts on the subject? How �bout Matthew 7:5-6��You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother�s eye. Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.�� Matthew 18:15-16
��If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.�� John 7:24
�� Do not judge according to appearance, but [b]judge with righteous judgment.��
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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R_H_Clark, By mixing translations you can posibly come up with what ever you want the Bible to say. When I was a new believer I used the King James Version. It took too much effort to try to figure out some of the passages. I wrote to Billy Graham. He suggested the New American Standard Bible would be better for someone who was not reared with it. Asked someone who is not familiar with the KJV to explain Luke 14. What I get from your posts is you want to sorta be casually connected to the church, but not connected solidly to God's Word enough to actually obey and teach obedience. I do not even like your translation that you are quoting from. the King James does not say that we have become "slaves of righteousness", it says "we have become servants of righteousness." Notice that Romans 6:18 in the King James says servants "of" righteousness, not servants "to" righteousness.
Your translation seems to contradict Romans 8:15 of the King James which says, 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. "For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, 'Abba ! Father !'� Romans6:6"knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin"
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Ringman's words
"What I get from your posts is you want to sorta be casually connected to the church, but not connected solidly to God's Word enough to actually obey and teach obedience."
What I get from your posts is that you think your obedience produces righteousness.
I have never taught disobedience. I want all to obey, but I want them to obey because they are saved, not obey to earn salvation.
Romans 6:6
yes we are no longer slaves to sin, but neither are we slaves to righteousness or slaves to Christ. We are not the slave of Christ. We are the bride of Christ and the Body of Christ. We are one with Christ, adopted by God. Romans 8:15 says we have received the spirit of adoption, not the spirit of bondage.
As long as you have a slave mentality you will be working to earn approval. God wants you to have a son mentality where obedience comes from a sense of loving your father and wanting to please him because you love him and he loves you.
Who do you think will work harder for his father's business, the slave worker, or the son who is an heir?
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What I get from your posts is that you think your obedience produces righteousness. I obey because I love the Lord. I obey because God made me righteous. Does that make it clear? What are some of the New Testasment instructions one who loves the Lord would obey? We are not the slave of Christ. "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body." God wants you to have a son mentality where obedience comes from a sense of loving your father and wanting to please him because you love him and he loves you. What are some examples of what instructions one who loves The Father would obey. Who do you think will work harder for his father's business, the slave worker, or the son who is an heir? I have never worked with a slave, but I certainly have worked with sons durning my seventy years. There is no contest. Based on the performance of the sons I have worked with the slave would.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Like I tell my kids constantly: if people spent even half as much time concerning themselves with the one person they can change (themselves) instead of others the world would be a far better place.
Not Scripture, but true for Christians & non- none the less.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Like I tell my kids constantly: if people spent even half as much time concerning themselves with the one person they can change (themselves) instead of others the world would be a far better place.
Not Scripture, but true for Christians & non- none the less. Well said.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Ringman's words
"What I get from your posts is you want to sorta be casually connected to the church, but not connected solidly to God's Word enough to actually obey and teach obedience."
What I get from your posts is that you think your obedience produces righteousness.
I have never taught disobedience. I want all to obey, but I want them to obey because they are saved, not obey to earn salvation.
Romans 6:6
yes we are no longer slaves to sin, but neither are we slaves to righteousness or slaves to Christ. We are not the slave of Christ. We are the bride of Christ and the Body of Christ. We are one with Christ, adopted by God. Romans 8:15 says we have received the spirit of adoption, not the spirit of bondage.
As long as you have a slave mentality you will be working to earn approval. God wants you to have a son mentality where obedience comes from a sense of loving your father and wanting to please him because you love him and he loves you.
Who do you think will work harder for his father's business, the slave worker, or the son who is an heir? Too bad Paul is dead. You could've corrected him on his Greek... Google 'Douloo' or buy yourself a Strong's or Vine's...
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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I obey because I love him What are, let's say, five things in the New Testament instructions you obey? Should other Christians obey these also? Love the Lord your God with all of your heart and soul and might and love your neighbor as yourself. This is what God asks of us. if we did this, we would all make this world a much better place.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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PS - and anyone who wonders what he should or shouldn't obey would not appear to have been filled with the Holy Spirit. Every Christian knows because the Spirit tells him what is right and what is wrong.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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Ringman's words
"What I get from your posts is you want to sorta be casually connected to the church, but not connected solidly to God's Word enough to actually obey and teach obedience."
What I get from your posts is that you think your obedience produces righteousness.
I have never taught disobedience. I want all to obey, but I want them to obey because they are saved, not obey to earn salvation.
Romans 6:6
yes we are no longer slaves to sin, but neither are we slaves to righteousness or slaves to Christ. We are not the slave of Christ. We are the bride of Christ and the Body of Christ. We are one with Christ, adopted by God. Romans 8:15 says we have received the spirit of adoption, not the spirit of bondage.
As long as you have a slave mentality you will be working to earn approval. God wants you to have a son mentality where obedience comes from a sense of loving your father and wanting to please him because you love him and he loves you.
Who do you think will work harder for his father's business, the slave worker, or the son who is an heir? Too bad Paul is dead. You could've corrected him on his Greek... Google 'Douloo' or buy yourself a Strong's or Vine's... Paul uses the word slave as in the sense that Christ is master. We are not however slaves to bondage as we think of the word slave today. This is why Paul can also say in Romans 8:15 that we have not received the spirit of bondage, or in II Cor.4:17, that where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, and not be contradicting himself. To fully understand you must interpret all scripture so that it agrees with itself.
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