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With regard to your request, rarely, if ever, do I quote Scripture verses/passages in these discussions. If a discussant is knowledgeable of the Scripture, there seems no need to quote. If the discussant is not knowledgeable of Scripture, my quote is not likely to be useful or effective due to contextual matters - and disinterest. It may even be counterproductive and cause a person to turn you off. Story to that point: Recently I was on a plane seated beside a nice lady who I came to realize had a particular political point of view and was pretty closed-minded to any other. She was full of questions about me -- where I lived, where I was going, what I did... all the usual, but every question had 2 or 3 follow-ups. In my answers I mentioned the book I had recently written. Not wanting to push it on her, I resorted to answering her questions rather than showing her a copy. I finally took out a copy of my book, which has a deer on the cover. She didn't react to that, but opened the book and her eyes fell on the chapter:verse of a Bible quotation. She didn't read anything else, but turned to me and said, "Are you an evangelical?" I waited to answer, hoping for a clue about what she thought an evangelical is. She gave me a clue alright. Her next words were "I don't like evangelicals." So, it's a fact that when some people see chapter:verse, they automatically dismiss not just what the person is saying, but the person saying it. That's one reason these discussions get nowhere. I'm not in this or any discussion to convince anyone of anything. That's not my responsibility; it's the Holy Spirit's. But if I can say something that provides him the opportunity to work, that's all I care to do. If he does not work, I'm OK with that. Steve.
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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Deists believe in God because of reason and natural theology. Natural theology is a form of revelation. Steve.
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Deists believe in God because of reason and natural theology. Natural theology is a form of revelation. Steve. Natural theology is an oxymoron.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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With regard to your request, rarely, if ever, do I quote Scripture verses/passages in these discussions. If a discussant is knowledgeable of the Scripture, there seems no need to quote. If the discussant is not knowledgeable of Scripture, my quote is not likely to be useful or effective due to contextual matters - and disinterest. It may even be counterproductive and cause a person to turn you off. Story to that point: Recently I was on a plane seated beside a nice lady who I came to realize had a particular political point of view and was pretty closed-minded to any other. She was full of questions about me -- where I lived, where I was going, what I did... all the usual, but every question had 2 or 3 follow-ups. In my answers I mentioned the book I had recently written. Not wanting to push it on her, I resorted to answering her questions rather than showing her a copy. I finally took out a copy of my book, which has a deer on the cover. She didn't react to that, but opened the book and her eyes fell on the chapter:verse of a Bible quotation. She didn't read anything else, but turned to me and said, "Are you an evangelical?" I waited to answer, hoping for a clue about what she thought an evangelical is. She gave me a clue alright. Her next words were "I don't like evangelicals." So, it's a fact that when some people see chapter:verse, they automatically dismiss not just what the person is saying, but the person saying it. That's one reason these discussions get nowhere. I'm not in this or any discussion to convince anyone of anything. That's not my responsibility; it's the Holy Spirit's. But if I can say something that provides him the opportunity to work, that's all I care to do. If he does not work, I'm OK with that. Steve. These are very good point. Here are two other reasons why it's a wise strategy for your side to avoid quoting chapter and verse. Using the Bible to prove the Bible is circular reasoning and will do nothing to convince a skeptic. In addition, there are many contradictions in the text, so a contradictory counter quote put you into the position of trying to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says. Once down that rabbit hole, against a good opponent, you will never escape.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Using the Bible to prove the Bible is circular reasoning and will do nothing to convince a skeptic.
The Bible uses circular reasoning for sure. Evolutionists use circular reasoning also. They start with the belief evolution is a fact and then go from there. The difference is it starts with the idea of everything coming from nothing which is contrary to the basic tenet of science: For every action there must be a cause. And the cause must be greater than the action. The difference with the Bible is it uses the scientific concept correctly by starting with an Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient Being.
In addition, there are many contradictions in the text,
If you don't mind, would you list a dozen or so?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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They start with the belief evolution is a fact and then go from there. That's absolutely untrue. The development of the Theory of Evolution began with observation, not a conclusion.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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For every action there must be a cause. And the cause must be greater than the action. Sorry my friend, but he above statement actually made me laugh. Newtons third law is as follows: When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body. In common parlance, for every actions, there is an equal and opposite reaction.... Your rendition of this physical law isn't even close....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Using the Bible to prove the Bible is circular reasoning and will do nothing to convince a skeptic.
The Bible uses circular reasoning for sure. Evolutionists use circular reasoning also. They start with the belief evolution is a fact and then go from there. The difference is it starts with the idea of everything coming from nothing which is contrary to the basic tenet of science: For every action there must be a cause. And the cause must be greater than the action. The difference with the Bible is it uses the scientific concept correctly by starting with an Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient Being.
In addition, there are many contradictions in the text,
If you don't mind, would you list a dozen or so? How many of what, and at what time of day were present at the opening of Jesus tomb?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Here are two other reasons why it's a wise strategy for your side to avoid quoting chapter and verse.
Using the Bible to prove the Bible is circular reasoning and will do nothing to convince a skeptic.
In addition, there are many contradictions in the text, so a contradictory counter quote put you into the position of trying to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says. Once down that rabbit hole, against a good opponent, you will never escape.
A-S-, it is interesting - almost humorous - to see you say "your side" (as if there IS a side) and for you to talk about some "strategy". Silliness abounds. Those comments would seem to indicate your belief that there is some contest - or battle - engaged by Christians in general against some other group(s) or type(s) of humans. That view reveals one who knows little about Christianity. Such a "contest" belief is absurd, and you flatter yourself beyond description if you think that the Body of Christ would choose you (or your "group") for battling. Christians do have struggles and battles to engage, as directed by God. And, when we are wise, we never attempt to do the jobs that are the realm of God and the Holy Spirit. Some of our assigned tasks are battles, and some of them very difficult, but they are not battles against the likes of you - no matter how worthy a fellow you might be. Every day we do battle with our sinful nature in efforts to follow and perform God's will. Now, whose "side" is that?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Here are two other reasons why it's a wise strategy for your side to avoid quoting chapter and verse.
Using the Bible to prove the Bible is circular reasoning and will do nothing to convince a skeptic.
In addition, there are many contradictions in the text, so a contradictory counter quote put you into the position of trying to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says. Once down that rabbit hole, against a good opponent, you will never escape.
A-S-, it is interesting - almost humorous - to see you say "your side" (as if there IS a side) and for you to talk about some "strategy". Silliness abounds. Those comments would seem to indicate your belief that there is some contest - or battle - engaged by Christians in general against some other group(s) or type(s) of humans. That view reveals one who knows little about Christianity. Such a "contest" belief is absurd, and you flatter yourself beyond description if you think that the Body of Christ would choose you (or your "group") for battling. Christians do have struggles and battles to engage, as directed by God. And, when we are wise, we never attempt to do the jobs that are the realm of God and the Holy Spirit. Some of our assigned tasks are battles, and some of them very difficult, but they are not battles against the likes of you - no matter how worthy a fellow you might be. Every day we do battle with our sinful nature in efforts to follow and perform God's will. Now, whose "side" is that? Nothing you said addressed my comments. I made no mention of "side" or "contest" I just agreed with you regarding why the quoting of scripture was ineffective.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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In addition, there are many contradictions in the text, so a contradictory counter quote put you into the position of trying to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says. Once down that rabbit hole, against a good opponent, you will never escape. 1. Perhaps you are a reader of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. 2. Perhaps you have never heard a capable expositor or Scripture. Steve.
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Deists believe in God because of reason and natural theology. Natural theology is a form of revelation. Steve. But not DIVINE revelation as per DIVINE revelation in a book of legends and myths.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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In addition, there are many contradictions in the text, so a contradictory counter quote put you into the position of trying to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says. Once down that rabbit hole, against a good opponent, you will never escape. 1. Perhaps you are a reader of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. 2. Perhaps you have never heard a capable expositor or Scripture. Steve. Exository Preaching: a method by which preachers attempt to explain how the Bible doesn't mean what it says.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Deists believe in God because of reason and natural theology. Natural theology is a form of revelation. Steve. But not DIVINE revelation as per DIVINE revelation in a book of legends and myths. Certainly written revelation (scripture), personal revelation (Christ), and natural revelation (creation) are all different modes of revelation, but they all have as their source God. thus natural revelation is still divine revelation. If a human communicator (artist, musician or writer) can reveal something of himself in his creation, certainly a divine communicator can reveal something of himself through his creation. Steve.
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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In addition, there are many contradictions in the text, so a contradictory counter quote put you into the position of trying to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says. Once down that rabbit hole, against a good opponent, you will never escape. 1. Perhaps you are a reader of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. 2. Perhaps you have never heard a capable expositor or Scripture. Steve. Exository Preaching: a method by which preachers attempt to explain how the Bible doesn't mean what it says. I see where you're coming from now. You reject the messenger; therefore you reject the message. I don't do that, but it's good for me to know that you do it. I think this brings us to the end of any worthwhile discussion. Steve.
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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Campfire 'Bwana
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In addition, there are many contradictions in the text, so a contradictory counter quote put you into the position of trying to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says. Once down that rabbit hole, against a good opponent, you will never escape. 1. Perhaps you are a reader of the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. 2. Perhaps you have never heard a capable expositor or Scripture. Steve. Exository Preaching: a method by which preachers attempt to explain how the Bible doesn't mean what it says. I see where you're coming from now. You reject the messenger; therefore you reject the message. I don't do that, but it's good for me to know that you do it. I think this brings us to the end of any worthwhile discussion. Steve. I didn't "reject" anything. The evidence just lead in a different direction.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Deists believe in God because of reason and natural theology. Natural theology is a form of revelation. Steve. But not DIVINE revelation as per DIVINE revelation in a book of legends and myths. Certainly written revelation (scripture), personal revelation (Christ), and natural revelation (creation) are all different modes of revelation, but they all have as their source God. thus natural revelation is still divine revelation. If a human communicator (artist, musician or writer) can reveal something of himself in his creation, certainly a divine communicator can reveal something of himself through his creation. Steve. Again DIVINE revelation refers to revelation by legends and mythologies. If one accepts natural observation as DIVINE revelation then one might as well throw the Bible in the trash heap. Are you ready to do that? If so welcome aboard as a Deist.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Again DIVINE revelation refers to revelation by legends and mythologies. If one accepts natural observation as DIVINE revelation then one might as well throw the Bible in the trash heap. Are you ready to do that? If so welcome aboard as a Deist. I don't know how anyone who has studied Christianity could be so wrong. You show me you don't understand Christianity or its sources. I have never met a Christian who believes divine revelation comes through legends. That is exactly why the apocryphal gospels are spurious. Yes, Christians see divine revelation in nature. And Christians see divine revelation in the scriptures. But Christians see the supreme divine revelation in the person of Christ. According to your flawed thinking, if we accept that God reveals himself through nature, then not only could we throw the Bible on the trash heap, we could also discard Christ. No can do. Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation. Steve.
"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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CCCC,
"I believe that our God is omniscient and omnipotent"
Do you believe that God can smite someone who displeases him? If you don't believe God would smite someone who displeases him is it ok if he gets one of his believers to smite them? A yes or no answer is ok, please don't quote Bible scripture. I am not answering in terms of "displease", for what it might take to displease God to such an extent, and what His reason might be for smiting, are beyond my full comprehension. But - do I "believe that God can smite someone"? Yes, I believe that He can. He is omnipotent. "Is it OK if He gets one of His beleivers to smite them"? I am not equipped to pass judgement on what might be "OK" for God to do in achieving His purposes. He knows that - He is omniscient. With regard to your request, rarely, if ever, do I quote Scripture verses/passages in these discussions. If a discussant is knowledgeable of the Scripture, there seems no need to quote. If the discussant is not knowledgeable of Scripture, such a quote is not likely to be useful or effective due to contextual matters - and disinterest. CCCC, Thanks for responding to my questions. Do you think God would be displeased if a adult male pervert kidnaps, rapes and murders a young innocent prepubescent girl? Assuming God would be displeased by this act do you think God should smite the pervert before he commits this horrible act. Please don't say that God gave man free will and therefore God isn't responsible for stopping the pervert. Isn't God all powerful and loves children?
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Nothing you said addressed my comments. I made no mention of "side" or "contest" I just agreed with you regarding why the quoting of scripture was ineffective. A-S- looks like you need to take a sanity pill - you seem to be deliberately ignoring - or forgetting - your own posts. Look for your following words back there: "against a good opponent" Are you trying to get folks to feel sorry for you?
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