Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints Prairie dog 223 help

I've been invited to go on a prairie dog shoot next year - actually have been invited numerous times, going to make it this time!

Rifles that will be making the trip:

Savage 93 heavy barrel 17hmr topped w/ 3200 7-21x40, shooting 20grn bullets

Remington 700 rebarreled to 6.5 Creedmoor, topped w/ SS 3-9x42, shooting 123 Scenars.



Obviously that leaves a gap - I need at least one small bore centerfire, so I picked up a new Ruger American SS in 223, haven't bought a scope for it yet or loaded/shot the first round. I need help w/ optics and bullets.

Talking to some of the guys that are making this trip about how they set-up their 223's and they tend to load mid-weight bullets (55grn Vmax), zero their rifles at 200 w/ scopes that top out at 12-16x. They range the targets, but they don't click their scopes or use a reticle, just Kentucky windage (again, talking 223 only - they do things differently w/ their 243's, 6mm's, etc).

I have never been on a prairie dog shoot, so obviously I've got a lot to learn, but it seems to me that a heavier bullet w/ a better BC and a scope w/ repeatable turrets would work better for this. I was thinking of loading up some 68grn BTHP's and topping w/ another SS 3-9x42, mil/mil.

Am I on the wrong track here?

David

David,

I love shooting prairie dogs...

I'd be buying as many Nosler 40 grain tipped Varmageddon's as I needed, then I'd secure some TAC. I'd look hard at 28 grains too -- that load is a hammer and super accurate in our 3 RAR 223's. You should be pushing 3800fps, maybe slightly under.

Grab a SS 10x and some Talley 30mm's and you're set!

Vaporize 'em and have some fun.

SAS,

Why do I want the lighter faster rounds instead of rounds w/ better BC's?

Sidenote:

Shot the 6.5CM at the range today for the first time. Shot a bunch of different bullets w/ various loads of RL17. 123 Amax, 123 Scenar, 123 SST, 127 LRX, 125 Partition all shot to same POI, all tiny little groups! Can't believe you sold that rifle !

Thanks Again!

David

The 40 grainers mean you dont have as much holdover issues until you get to longer ranges and more importantly they don't recoil as much as heavier bullets and allow you to call your own shots and watch the carnage in the scope. If you are taking the creedmoor let it be your long range/high wind gun and get your 223 perking with any tipped 40 grainer and use it as your mid range gun. top with a fixed or variable with a top end between 9 and 14x and enjoy watching the dogs helicopter in your scope. I find that I always crank my higher variables back to that power range to beat mirage and to watch the hit.
Just my .02

Dude, You got it right on. I seldom take my Swift anymore, just a BDL 223 (4x12 VariX3)w/fast 40 gr. Varms and a low wall Hornet (8x Lyman) w/40 Varms and Lilgun. Also an Anchutz 22 and some sort of a "Mystery" gun which this year was a .410 SxS. I sure wish I'd loaded more than 10 boxes for it though! BTW was shooting gophers in MT w/this the 17th year in a row. The 68's drop too fast past 250 yards (max vel per Hornady is 2900 fps) and you will be constantly shooting high or low as the beasties are all spread out, not w/the fast 40's though. I'd also strongly recommend a temp. insensitive powder as temps. can vary from 45 to over a 100 and you don't want a bunch of ammo you can't shoot, I've seen it.-Muddy

David,

What the other guys said about using lighter bullets is spot-on, but another couple of factors are:

1) Heavier bullets don't drift much less in the wind less than lighter bullets at the typical ranges prairie dogs are killed. I've been shooting PD's for 45 years now, and have shot with several national benchrest champions, long-time military snipers and instructors, and winning high-power shooters. I haven't seen one yet who could hit more dogs than they miss in typical wind conditions beyond about 350 yards, and out to 350 a light, fast bullet won't drift any more than a heavier bullet. Run the numbers on a ballistic program and you'll see what I mean.

2) Heavier bullets like a 68 BTHP don't kill dogs nearly as quickly or spectacularly as light plastic-tipped bullets. They also ricochet more easily, which can be a factor on some dog towns.

I do prefer a ballistic reticle combined with turrets, because both help me hit more dogs. And the guys who haven't used either before are usually converted after they give 'em a try.

Probably the most elite group ever assembled to shoot prairie dogs last June, did what JB is saying. John left early but he won't do that again. We talked about him the next 2 days.

40 grain plastic tips are the way to go. The majority of shooting that weekend was with 222 mag and 223's. The only difference was the 222 mags did account for more hits. Ballistically they are about equal, so your 223 with 40 grainers and good powder will become your favorite.

Don't be afraid of H-335 powder, I know there are rumors of it's finicky nature, but those people still believe in Zombies and Vampires.

I have to agree with JB about the scopes too. The more scope you have the better your shooting will be. I would also say that 3 guns isn't nearly enough...

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the insight. its starting to make more sense to me now.

Interesting comment on not bringing enough rifles. My shooting partners eluded to that as well. Before I recently purchased this Ruger American 223, the 6.5 Creedmoor was the smallest centerfire I owned so if I want another I'm going to have to buy it.

Just got through paying for my first semester of college for my son - rifle funds aren't what they used to be! I have $700 in my budget for glass. I also have two older Bushnell Elites, a 4200 4-16x40 and a 3200 5-15x40 that could be pressed into service. Both scopes have decent optics and hold zero.

Would I be better off buying another 223 and mounting those older Bushnells or stay the course and buy some decent glass for the 1 rifle? I don't have the budget to buy two rifles and two scopes for this right now.

Thanks,

David

JB and that shrapnel guy know what they are talking about.

Speaking of the serpent's lair, I had the privilege of finding out why one shooter would dust so many of the few that showed up close or in the middle of that 300-350 range before I extrapolated with "hold under" or turned turrets: a ballistic reticle that he used with proficiency.
It provided more hits than the BC of my 75gr. A-maxes, at least til the wind died down on Sunday (I'm sticking to that)!

The other rule is proficiency; guys who dog shoot a lot are better dog hunters, period.

JB will lean you towards a 204, but I think most folks on a budget are better served with a 223.

Right now I'm toying with the idea of another fast twist 222 Magnum with both turrets and a mil-dot system, if only for the 'dogs....because I could be more UBER.

You are on the right track�but rest assured your .223 will get the bulk of the shooting, so be prepared for that.

A 222 wouldn't be bad either...depends on the oodles of brass availability.

You know I love the deuce, its my fave for gophs, but PDs are bigger, meaner. They need the extra horsepower of a .223


Actually a fave combo is the .223 and 68 gr BTHPs..bucks the wind and extends the range�

Just built a 1 in 12 deuce for a pard�that MoFo shoots!

PD's are so big and mean they need a 222 Magnum and 75 A-Max....bucks wind, extends range and still "puffs"...

What is this 222 Magnum that you and Shrap speak of?

A few other things to think about -

1. The style of shooting your partners like to do.
Some folks like to take turns spotting and shooting, in that case you would have enough time for your rifle to cool so you will probably not need two rifles. If they shoot "free-for-all" where everyone is shooting independently without spotting for each other then you may need two rifles. But that in itself is a big "if", it is dependent on the number of rounds per day. In my world a 500 round day is a big day, most days are closer to 200 to 250 and one gun is doable although it will get a little warm at times. With the proliferation of folks shooting PD's now it is becoming more difficult to have big number days unless you have a very select spot that doesn't get shot very often.

2. Scopes -
Your Bushnell Elites will serve you just fine, the 4200 would be my first pick since the optics are better than the 3200. But I have run a 3200 5-15x40 on my backup rifle for a lot of years and it has always served me well. Most days it is hard to use more than 12 to 14 power because of mirage.

3. Binoculars -
They have not been mentioned yet but a good binocular will find a lot of PD's that may otherwise be overlooked. There are a lot of decent bino's out there for $400 or so.

4. Bullets -
As mentioned 40 gr plastic tipped, my favorites and the ones that shoot best in my rifles are the Nosler BT's, plus they give great action. There are a lot of powders that will get you into the 3700 fps range with the ballistic tips and in my experience they don't seem to be as effected by the wind as some of the others although the difference is minor. More importantly find the one that shoots sub-MOA in your rifle and be happy with it.

Go, have fun and by the time the shoot ends you will have a lot better idea of what you may need to change. I have been shooting gophers and PD's all my life, which has been a long time, and still enjoy it more than any other sport.

drover

UBER is spelled 222 mag X4...

I'll have five at my disposal if I get out there agin'....

I don't know....he's such an iconic figure that they have become very hard to find as of late....so I've resorted to having a reamer and have contacted gunsmiths to keep my own sources protected....

Canazes,
You are talking about what to do with scopes...Here's my $.02. Good optics make the difference b/t a fun day and one of misery. After a day on the scope, you will find that you are more fatigued from eye strain than recoil. With that said, get the best optics you can afford and whatever you do, DO NOT forget the binoculars. They will become your best friend when scouting for pdogs to shoot.

BTW, my go to load in .223 was a 55gr VMAX with 25 grains of Benchmark. It produces bugholes.

...and lest we forget--those giant pasture poodles also teach military tactics at west point...