Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Minimum 'caliber' for Kodiak Brown Bear?

I would have no problem either hunting for myself or guiding a hunter using a 308 firing 180 gr Nosler Partitions, Swifts or TSX bullets.

Well there you go, Phil. I was mistaken, as it was your camp that I was referring to. Are there any other bullets you'd trust in a 308 for the big Brownies?

North Fork, CEB's, Grand Slams, Kodiak, Fail Safe's, Trophy Bonded and Woodleighs come to mind.

For the record, regarding the discussion going on before I jumped in, I don't shoot as well with a cartridge with powder capacity over my 30-06 in sporter weight rifles. Certainly, I can concentrate and get off good shots, but it takes concentration and extra time. I don't and won't use muzzle brakes, so I have determined that 30-06 level of recoil is my max. Occasionally I shoot bigger stuff, but after many, many rounds in bigger guns, I still haven't become comfortable the recoil/muzzle blast. It is ok with me that an '06 with warm loads and heavy bullets is the biggest I am comfortable with. I must be too sensitive?

I plan to get a big 7 within a couple years as a long-range rig. May have to add gun weight or some other thing to shoot it as well as I want to. I want a long barrel, so maybe that will help.

Thank you, Phil for the feedback on the 308Win

HuntnShoot, I'm like you with the 30-06 in sporter weight rifle in it's about my max for recoil tolerance. That if I drop a little below the 30-06 recoil level to eiter a 270Win or 308Win is better for ME.

I'm not a big guy and short actions seem to fit me better.

Phil, thank you for your input/advice. You are sure an accessible guy, and it is great to get your perspectives and opinions with a few keystrokes. I know all the brands you mention except for the Kodiaks. It is a bit surprising that you are comfortable with 180's in 308's. I've never shot at a big bear, but the usual gack is that a smaller 30 cal is a bit wee.

I have used my .308 win on a couple interior bears growing up in a small interior town. As a teen I didn't know that 180 core lots weren't good bear medicine so I just made due. Now I can load 200 grain woodleighs to 2550 fps out of my 20" barrel .308 win and have to imagine that is better than the green/yellow box stuff I used on grizzlies in my teens.

The problem here is three-fold.
Education, internet access and humor are the problems.

Someone obviously taught the bears to read hence the education part and the increasing ease of internet access in remote areas has meant the bears can now see that anyone shooting something less than an artillery piece on wheels is not a threat to them and any bear killed with less has obviously only died laughing at the stupidity of the mere mortal human thing trying to hurt it.

A .22lr can kill anything on the planet eventually, an ICBM can also kill anything on the planet and do it quicker. Somewhere in between is the middle ground and only experience can tell any of us where the best place on that middle ground is. Experience can also tell you what works fast enough to be ethical and responsible given a reasonable amount of skill on the part of the user. Guys like Phil are the voice of experience and they are the ones worth listening to.

Peach of a thread - glad I read all 9 pages.

In 3 years I should be done with my MBA and 4 years, my son will be on his own doing his own thing (he wants to go Navy or Coast Guard).

At that time I'd really like to move to AK and take advantage of all that entails.

Kinda sorta figured on a 223 Montana, 7-08 Montana and maybe a Ruger SS in 35 Whelen.

Have a hunch now that reading this thread - I'll be okay in that regard - no matter what chances/game will come to me in AK.

I value Phil's insight greatly - along with the other AK residents here who've offered theirs. Thanks for the read.

BE CAREFULLLLLLL... Phil' brown bear are huge, fat and healthy.... more than average AK bear.....they don't like to be hit by less than a MINIMUM CALIBER..... I had a talk with one... few weeks ago.... (humour)
Especially if the hunter is "MAAAARINE" needs at least something like Weatherby 378 or 460 something....

I killed a bee with my finger !!!!! is it the minimum or the maximum !!!!

my next minimum caliber with a brown bear !

I'm going to try this two fingers caliber on a bear trail by night.... but I'll ask to Phil to back up me.... with a 458 WMG

WOW,,, Quite the thread here, it's taken me awhile to get thru the 42 pages,so I decided to join this "forum", so as to "Post" a few comments/observations that I took away from this read.
MH or Marinehawk, appears to be one of those guys, that just has to have the "last-word" no matter what, I've had some run-in's with those types of fellow's, in my 65yrs. on this Terra-firma, I don't think he got much attention when he was little, so he's maybe "Over Compensating" a bit now, anyway, Phil, I thought you handled yourself, and the subject matter, as well as one could. I checked out your Web-site,-[GrizzlySkins]- very nice, all though I'd heard your name mentioned before, when I first came to King Salmon, Naknek, early 2003, John & Jay King said some good things about your Operation, as well did Alan Gilland, the Parks Pilot that was first on-site for the Timmy Treadwell incident. Anyway, back to the subject at hand,,, I guess it would be splitting-hairs here, and -[correct me if I'm wrong]-but your Operation and Experience isn't on Kodiak,,,so maybe the subject should have read -[Alaska Brown Bear]- but I'm not sure who started the Thread,so for the lower 48 folks, it may lend a little understanding to the Species, again albeit a trivial bit, but none the less an accurate description for those that may not realize, the small difference.
Just FWIW, my Dad and Uncle hunted with Hal Waugh on Kodiak, Dead-Mans Bay in 1959 & again in 1963, and also at Hal's Post Lake Camp, for Sheep and Moose.
My Dad hunted with a Pre-64 Win.270 Featherweight, and he always shot Heavy for Caliber Win.Silver-Tips, My Uncle had the same Rifle, but in 30-06, with the same Win. Silver-Tips, again Heavy for caliber. I can tell you there was always a "Lively" de-bate around the Camp Fire, of who's Rifle was BEST>!!!
I know you Know,,,, that Hal Waugh shot a Pre-64 MD.70 in.300H&H, that Roy W. himself converted to a .375Wby for Hal,ie... Big-Nan, man, if that rifle could talk. Anyway, I see that you are in Wasilla during the winter months, I'm in Palmer, I'll give you a shout about some future business, see what your prices are and schedules ect..., have a couple of old hunting buddies, that have a "Bucket" list.
Take Care, and Keep your Nose in the Wind.

There are no elk on Kodiak. There are on neighboring islands Afognak and Raspberry.

A number of years ago I picked up a bull elk shed on Uganik Island...

Hey Phil , what did Pinnell and Talifson use on bears in their day? Ive read Track of the Kodiak but don't recall(been a while) , think you did a article on it or something?

They used Model 70 Winchester's in 375 HandH.
I just saw this thread. Glad I missed it.
BUT.

On a bet I would cleanly kill a brown bear with my 223 with 53 gr TSX. If I see a grizzly while hunting with my 6.5 Creedmoor and I can sneak up close to it I'll kill it with that.
If I'm going to get in a fight with one I'll use my 458.
Use what you shoot well and fast with. But if your rifle is smaller than a 375 HandH ect. Don't expect the bear to be all magazine article accommodating if you have to stop it at high speed and close range all by yourself miles and miles from anyone and possibly days from medical attention. With no fon service.
But if its a guided hunt its your guides responsibility to insure your safety so just use a reasonable cart with a very good bullet and shoot it well.

Have to disagree this statement and mindset, each person is responsible for themselves first and foremost in this setting, as well as life in general.

A guide might be able to help, or might not. Things can happen quickly and unexpectedly once in the weeds, and they too are human with all of the good and frailties that comes with that.

You've perhaps defined just the ideal most guides hope for ............when they feel like babysitting a (difficult) client!

Can and will can be miles apart.

Nope, I would. Cause if I couldn't, I wouldn't take the shot.
Ain't no might or maybe about it.
It wouldn't be my first rodeo. An there wouldn't much rodeoin about it .

Where as with a 416 or 458 . Its an aweful lot simpeler.