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Campfire Ranger
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The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands. why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs. Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rover were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11. Then why didn't Saddam allow the U.N. inspections? Just because we didn't find any WMD doesn't mean they didn't/don't exist...he did use them on the Kurds. yea, he used chemical weapons on the kurds - Bush was talking yellow cake uranium and aluminum tubes for enrichment - he was going down full blown nuke - not some mustard gas we already knew about a decade before.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands. why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs. Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rover were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11. Then why didn't Saddam allow the U.N. inspections? Just because we didn't find any WMD doesn't mean they didn't/don't exist...he did use them on the Kurds. Would the US allow UN inspections? Iraq was/is a sovereign nation. Said nation does not need to allow an foreign inspections for anything. The UN is the real reason we are in this mess.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Ranger
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The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands. And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did. Saddam Hussein rewarded terrorists every chance he got: Saddam Pays 25K for Palestinian Bombers | Fox News Fox News Channel: Mar 26, 2002 - Saddam Hussein issues $25000 checks to the families of Palestinian ... a bonus for the families of martyrs, to reward those taking part in the ... So the Palestinian Authority is blatantly exposing its terrorist funding from Iraq? BBC: Mar 3, 2003 Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel. Relatives of at least one suicide attacker as well as other militants and civilians gathered in a hall in Gaza City to receive cheques. "Iraq and Palestine are in one trench. Saddam is a hero," read a banner over a picture of the Iraqi leader and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat at the ceremony. With war looming in the Middle East, Palestinian speakers condemned the United States and Israel, which dismissed the ceremony as support for terrorism. One by one, at least 21 families came up to receive their cheques from the Palestinian Arab Liberation Front (PALF), a local pro-Iraq group. A Hamas suicide bomber's family got $25,000 while the others - relatives of militants killed in fighting or civilians killed during Israeli military operations - all received $10,000 each. Another banner in the hall described the cheques as the "blessings of Saddam Hussein" and PALF speakers extolled the Iraqi leader in fiery speeches. "Saddam Hussein considers those who die in martyrdom attacks as people who have won the highest degree of martyrdom," said one. The party estimated that Iraq had paid out $35m to Palestinian families since the current uprising began in September 2000. Saddam's avowed support for the Palestinians, a nd his missile attacks on Israel during the Gulf War, have won him wide backing in the territories.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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and there you go
Bowsinger says we invaded Iraq because of Israel
see, its not just the false flaggers that make the connection, its the Israel support front here as well.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands. And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did. Saddam Hussein rewarded terrorists every chance he got: Saddam Pays 25K for Palestinian Bombers | Fox News Fox News Channel: Mar 26, 2002 - Saddam Hussein issues $25000 checks to the families of Palestinian ... a bonus for the families of martyrs, to reward those taking part in the ... So the Palestinian Authority is blatantly exposing its terrorist funding from Iraq? BBC: Mar 3, 2003 Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel. Relatives of at least one suicide attacker as well as other militants and civilians gathered in a hall in Gaza City to receive cheques. "Iraq and Palestine are in one trench. Saddam is a hero," read a banner over a picture of the Iraqi leader and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat at the ceremony. With war looming in the Middle East, Palestinian speakers condemned the United States and Israel, which dismissed the ceremony as support for terrorism. One by one, at least 21 families came up to receive their cheques from the Palestinian Arab Liberation Front (PALF), a local pro-Iraq group. A Hamas suicide bomber's family got $25,000 while the others - relatives of militants killed in fighting or civilians killed during Israeli military operations - all received $10,000 each. Another banner in the hall described the cheques as the "blessings of Saddam Hussein" and PALF speakers extolled the Iraqi leader in fiery speeches. "Saddam Hussein considers those who die in martyrdom attacks as people who have won the highest degree of martyrdom," said one. The party estimated that Iraq had paid out $35m to Palestinian families since the current uprising began in September 2000. Saddam's avowed support for the Palestinians, a nd his missile attacks on Israel during the Gulf War, have won him wide backing in the territories. That's Israel's problem, and still had nothing to do with AQ or 9/11. Saddam was a worthless POS and should have been finished off by G.H.W.B. Yet, like that other worthless POS, Ghaddafi, Saddam kept the lid on Islamic extremists in his country. We screwed the pooch on that one in Iraq and Libya, with nothing to show for it and distracting our focus from what it should have been - finding and killing Islamic extremists and their supporters (of course, that would have involved engaging, offending, eliminating Saudis and no one in DC has that kind of guts).
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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stiges of his minions, split th e The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands. why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs. Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rover were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11. I can certainly entertain and debate that. So the "vendetta" issue is out the window I take it? Like Hatari pointed out, Hussein (the other) gambled against the mandate and lost. The "narrative" was created LONG before 9/11 and again two put the decision on just two rather low-grade individuals like the two you mentioned, I'm just not ready to buy into that. I am not a huge Bush fan, but one thing I am convinced of, he is not a frivolous and shallow kind of person to have risked all that blood and treasure on a vendetta or flimsy intelligence, let's just say I'm not ready to accept that. Did he screw up? yes, and I've said so before and many times. I would have gone in with at least double the force, completely eradicated all his minions, split the country along tribal lines, kept their sheiks in Russian women, booze and fancy cars, and take their oil. To think you could turn that place or any other country over there into a western style democracy, was and IS stupid.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Would the US allow UN inspections? Iraq was/is a sovereign nation. Said nation does not need to allow an foreign inspections for anything.
The UN is the real reason we are in this mess. [/quote]
Those inspections were a major part of his surrender agreement.
FJB & FJT
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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jorge,
It wasn't just Rove and Wolfowitz. It was a clear agenda of the Project for a New American Century, a neo-conservative think tank that included those two as well as William Kristol, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle, Robert Kagan, Donald Rumsfeld, Eliott Abrams, Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby, and quite a few others
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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We always try to separate the 'good' from the 'bad' when they are forever linked.
You can't defeat Obama, and his ilk, without changing the attitudes of 80 million plus people. Sure, vote Obama out, big deal, there will be another like him. You need to change the people.
Just as you can't defeat the 'bad' Muslims when they are continually harbored by and recruited from the 'good' Muslims. Eliminate one 'bad' Muslim group and another comes along to take its place.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
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Would the US allow UN inspections? Iraq was/is a sovereign nation. Said nation does not need to allow an foreign inspections for anything.
The UN is the real reason we are in this mess.
Those inspections were a major part of his surrender agreement.[/quote] Okay I'll give you that. Removing Hessian has sure been a benefit to the US especially as we initially supported Hessian. If the US has a foreign policy I sure would like to know what it is.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
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I've been "accused" of being a NEOCON by a few here (whateverthephuck that means as I've NEVER seen a clear definition). I do admit to being an imperialist of sorts I suppose (Manifest Destiny WAS imperialism and nothing more), but again if the motive was to eradicate a dictator who in our view and based on solid intel from MANY sources had WMDs, I'm OK with that, but if the rationale was to also establishing a western-style democracy, THAT was and is idiotic.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.
Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm simply going by how they defined themselves at that time, not casting aspersions.
I could have cared less whether he had WMDs. At that time, and now, we have one clear object - to root out and destroy radical Islamic terrorists. Saddam and WMDs had nothing to do with that objective. Attacking him instead of going after those responsible for and backing the radical Islamic terrorists was stupid from the get-go.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.
Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head. Screw the liberal masses. If someone wants to kill you, then you have two choices: kill them, or be killed. We took our eye off of who it was that wanted to kill us, and haven't figured out how to get back on that bead.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Why kill? We can talk to them and become friends. Hell, maybe even let them have our daughters.
That's the liberal mindset.
We don't have the leadership to do what needs to be done, just as we don't have the populace to understand that you can't 'reason' with them.
Hell, we've forgotten 9/11, I think it will take a few nukes in a few cities to MAYBE get the people 'angry'.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.
Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head. Screw the liberal masses. If someone wants to kill you, then you have two choices: kill them, or be killed. We took our eye off of who it was that wanted to kill us, and haven't figured out how to get back on that bead. I agree, but that's not the flavor of the country these days. Love the Muslim. People have no [bleep] idea and likely won't, even when it's too late. Tolerance is FAR overrated.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If the US has a foreign policy I sure would like to know what it is. [/quote]
When/if you get that info, please do pass it along to Obozo.
FJB & FJT
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm simply going by how they defined themselves at that time, not casting aspersions.
I could have cared less whether he had WMDs. At that time, and now, we have one clear object - to root out and destroy radical Islamic terrorists. Saddam and WMDs had nothing to do with that objective. Attacking him instead of going after those responsible for and backing the radical Islamic terrorists was stupid from the get-go. That's where we have a disagreement and I'm sure we are at odds over Iran as well. To my way of thinking, we should have gone in there already and sorted them out....then take their oil and yes eradicted the terrorists as well, but that means commitment, and we haven't done that since WWII>
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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I'm simply going by how they defined themselves at that time, not casting aspersions.
I could have cared less whether he had WMDs. At that time, and now, we have one clear object - to root out and destroy radical Islamic terrorists. Saddam and WMDs had nothing to do with that objective. Attacking him instead of going after those responsible for and backing the radical Islamic terrorists was stupid from the get-go. That's where we have a disagreement and I'm sure we are at odds over Iran as well. To my way of thinking, we should have gone in there already and sorted them out....then take their oil and yes eradicted the terrorists as well, but that means commitment, and we haven't done that since WWII> Iranian ties to terrorism might be a good bit easier to make, but we should have sorted them out in 1979/1980.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.
Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head. Screw the liberal masses. If someone wants to kill you, then you have two choices: kill them, or be killed. We took our eye off of who it was that wanted to kill us, and haven't figured out how to get back on that bead. I agree, but that's not the flavor of the country these days. Love the Muslim. People have no [bleep] idea and likely won't, even when it's too late. Tolerance is FAR overrated. Agreed.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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