Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing How do I "de-gloss" a stock with steel wool?

Your charming manner just keeps shining through. You are a delight to share ideas with. Such a warmhearted, fun and interesting guy. I'll bet you are the one everybody wants to talk to at cocktail parties.

There you go! I knew you could.

I guess you failed to read this statement from me on the first page of this thread. It explains the how and why of your grasp of the situation:

"Anyone that suggests they do not have the freckling problem with steel wool has never looked. Friable abrasives fall apart, period. Steel is harder than plastic and breaks with sharp edges. Those sharp edges get caught in the plastic (used as an adjective) finish which has been heated at the extremely local level by friction. That makes the finish gummy.

When those steel particles rust, and they will, they produce opaque freckles visible to 10x easily. Identical pieces side-by-side finished exactly the same with only the steel wool difference show it every time. No one would pick the freckled side, ever.

To suggest it is ignorance is fine unless it has been laid out cleanly and directly and you continue to argue the point without looking.

Just like thinning finish to increase penetration. I have the benefit of not having to guess..."

There is no "one perfect way" to produce a good finish but there are lots of bad ways. Steel wool is one of those.

Hint: operative words to look for in the above statement: "friable" and "extremely local."

I really don't have a problem with the idea that the steel particles can break off. That's entirely reasonable. And we all know there are many ways or materials to use to degloss a finish or even to add gloss to a finish when the deglossing becomes polishing. What I have said is that I have never seen any evidence of steel wool causing freckling on any of the stocks I have done. I don't hunt in a salt water environment, though I did grow up in Louisiana in a wet and high humidity area along the Mississippi River. If you say that freckling is unavoidable, all I can say is that I have not seen it. What I will do this week is to take my Winchester 9422 and put a small amount of salt water on the stock and see what happens. It has an Antique Oil finish with some open pores and it should have some steel particles in the finish or the pores.

If you are right, I will say so on this forum. And if I don't see any freckling I will say that and will expect you to be civil.

Frankly, I could not possibly care less what you admit to finding or not finding as it is extremely obvious the entire argument has completely slipped past what you use for logic.

Your total lack of comprehension on the Scientific Method is amazing. Where is the control group in your "gonna slap some saltwater on my 9422 stock?" You do not even understand the most basic concept in testing.

Make a sample board with steel wool and without patches side-by-side. Then subject them to whatever you want to test and compare the results. Then you might actually start to understand. Though I admit to feeling even that is highly unlikely...

I always use rottenstone and water for such tasks.

Sitka, I actually considered using some scrap walnut and finishing it in several ways, with and without the use of steel wool. But then, you had suggested (ranted) that the steel wool and wax I had used on that rifle stock would without a doubt lead to freckling when the broken bits of steel wool rusted that I had, in my ignorance, caused to be lodged in the finish. And you must be right, since the extreme surface temps brought on by my light rubbing of the stock with steel wool would most certainly cause steel particles to be snagged by the melted surface of the finish. So, with that in mind, why not just put water on the stock of a rifle that I had finished in the last year. Better yet, why not use salt water, which would cause a more rapid oxidation of the metal, and the freckling (per the Great and Powerful Oz, aka Sitka) would show up faster. But now you say that my approach isn't scientific enough. Well...per you the steel particles are definitely there. Why not just try to rust them. You aren't risking anything but credibility. I'm having to risk eating crow while also possibly screwing up a nice looking gunstock. No use trying to talk me out of it. I'm at the point where I really want to know. I never have seen any freckling on a gunstock I've finished, but maybe I need to mistreat the stock a bit more. Stay tuned.

Why should anyone expect you to see freckles when you have failed to see them before? Mistreating is not required... use is and that may be the crux.

I'm still pretty stove up from dragging Riley up that Hill trying to find a goat, and was about to jump in the hot tub- but I doubt there's an empty seat...

I'm 1.5 days into trying to get steel wool particles to rust (freckle) on my gun stock (if they are there, and Sitka says they are). So far, nothing, though I have raised the grain a bit in one spot.

Observations: the water did eventually penetrate the Antique Oil finish, though it took several hours to do so.

I plan to leave the rifle with dried salt water on the stock for about a week. Maybe more time is needed for freckling.

As for Sitka's mention that maybe I've had freckled stocks in the past but could never see the freckles, I have to say that if the freckles cannot be seen, then why are we worried about them?.

And...you might ask...how long have you had stocks that could possibly have freckled? Thanks for asking. First gun stock that I finished, which was a rubbed oil finish (using the technique outlined in The Shotgunner's Book, by Col. Charles Askins) was some time in the 1970's. It was a Marlin 336 that my Dad gave me around 1963, and it had really nice wood grain. I hunted with that rifle in the rain and mud and I'd occasionally rub some more oil (BLO) into the stock to renew its good looks. For years it was the only deer rifle I had, and I hunted hard. Gotta say that I never noticed any rusty freckles in the stock. Don't have the gun any more, or I'd go look at it.

Anyway, I'll come back in a week or so and report on whether or not I freckled my gun stock. Of course, you are going to have to take my word for whatever happens. I'm not talking to you, Sitka. Regardless of what happens, I think you are going to be of the mindset of "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up". But...maybe you'll actually be right and there will be rust spots and I'll have to eat crow. Gotta say...I really don't want to have to do that, but I will report on the results, even if they don't reflect well on what I believe.

Stay tuned.

Yup, all those stocks that were finished/refinished before synthetic steel wool was invented must be real rust buckets by now.

Nothing better for comedy than having the clueless congregate...

Nah, ass holes who think theirs' doesn't stink are (sadly for them) much more entertaining.

Took me all of 2 minutes to find Sitka's detailed description of how he does his stocks and it was within the last year. If some folks put as much effort into the search function as they do into picking fights I think we would all have more productive threads.

SS

I agree, but Art has a problem. He just too much of a "My way or the highway" type of guy. Gets old after a while.

If you post demonstrably stupid stuff guaranteed to needlessly make someone elses life more difficult and then want to argue very simple, very basic facts then I am persistent.

If you insist on throwing in with someone as obviously slow as 603, you deserve every bit of crap you catch.

And for the record I have listed more than a bunch of different ways to handle different situations. 603 took umbrage with my suggestion of Formby's Furniture Restorer on a simple, quick refinish. He also posted on a thread where I described spar varnish and oil in variable cuts with increasing oil.

And another with epoxy, and yet another with CA. All tested finishes that I have not only used but tested on sample boards for quality before using and certainly before suggesting someone else do it "My Way" or else.

You will notice my problem with him started when he started making suggestion on things I have personally done and tested and found wanting. Not by way of opinion or taste, but by way of actual failure. He continues to suggest a finish known for watermarking is a good stock finish.

How much good does that do anyone?

Sitka, I haven't trashed a thing you've said about any finish. The reverse is true. You simply don't want anyone else to have an opinion that isn't your opinion. I admit to kidding you about your fear of steel wool and your insistence on the inevitability of freckling. I actually think that you do know what you are doing, but I don't understand your reluctance to allow anyone else to have an opinion. You just need to lighten up a bit and let others share ideas without tearing into them as if they were idiots. I've been finishing wood projects since 1962 or 1963. Never said I was the best at it, and I keep learning as years pass, and I'm pretty good at it.

I'd use rottenstone, linseed oil, and a cotton cloth pad rather than steel wool.

My stocks are all "satin" or dull.

I don't go for flash, but on the other hand, if they are close enough to see/react to a shiny stock, they're close enough to shoot....

Steel wool and rusty stocks? Doesn't happen unless you're not wiping off between coats. More stocks have been finished with steel wool than any other abrasive I'd bet. I haven't seen many rusty finishes and haven't ever had problems with steel wool. I've tried synthetic wool and didn't like them as well as 0000 steel wool.

Sadly, it is obvious you have never made a sample board to see the difference. It takes little time and will save you from saying foolish things on a public forum.

603
Feel free to have any opinion you wish about anything. Feel freer to stick to facts when posting. Leading others down poor paths is no service.

You did indeed call out my suggestion for Formby's Furniture Restorer on a refinish job. Yet you have zero experience using it. And I am the bad guy limiting your right to an opinion?