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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,082
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,082 |
The above two groups are from my 240Wby with 85gr SGKs. First is 52.4gr second is 53gr, both IMR4831. The rifle is a custom built on a Pre 64 action and has plenty of mag length to reach the lands. I know a Wby is supposed to have freebore but I worked my way up in 0.3 grain increments and I'm not showing pressure signs. Both of the above loads were loaded to the lands. The group in between the two above at 52.7gr was more of a cloverleaf pattern but at about 1.25 inches. Do the above groups indicate a loading depth issue? Should I try these loads at .01 inch deeper increments? Those two shots almost on top of each other at 2 different charges are enticing, just wondering if loading them deeper might help with that flyer. The action is bedded very well and the barrel is floated. Trigger is great. 26 inch barrel that is not quite varmint contour but definitely heavier than a standard sporter. I don't think it's a barrel heat issue. Sorry about the fly in the second pic. My buddy splattered him a few minutes later with his 204!
Last edited by TATELAW; 09/22/14.
Those who must raise their voice to get their point across are generally not intelligent enough to do so in any other way.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,525 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,525 Likes: 2 |
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,179 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,179 Likes: 7 |
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink. This.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,118 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,118 Likes: 3 |
I'm not a big fan of such small changes in charge or seating depth.
With many powders, a 30 degree F change in barrel temperature is equivalent to a grain of powder. If you're not controlling barrel temperature to within a degree or two, small changes in charge or seating depth will be completely swamped by the temperature change. If you can get it to work today, chances are it won't work tomorrow.
If it were mine, I'd start by re-checking bedding. After a little coaching from someone who understands better than I do, I found I could feel barrel rubs that I couldn't feel before. In some cases, I can feel the barrel rub "grab" on the ink on a dollar bill, and smoothly slide over unprinted areas.
If that is unproductive, I would remove the scope and bases.
Once in a great while, the front screw on the bases will bottom out on the threads of the barrel before the screw is tight. That's a hard one to detect. Remount the bases, put blue LockTite on the screws, and torque them all to spec. Insure that the rings are aligned so that they do not stress your scope when it is mounted.
Torque your action mounting screws to spec. Once you do, loosen the rear screw and see if the rear tang moves up out of the stock. If it does, you have a bedding problem.
Start your shooting test with a different scope.
For a short test, torque the ring screws to spec and see how the rifle is shooting.
Then switch back to the scope you're using. Put blue LockTite on the ring screws, and tighten them only to spec, so that the scope is not stressed.
Do not zoom the scope while performing these tests. You may have a situation where the scope does not hold zero while zooming.
Once you can get the rifle to shoot itty bitty groups without zooming, check to see if your scope returns to zero after zooming.
If none of that helps, then a good guess is that the barrel-receiver junction is not as rigid as it should be. Charlie Sisk knows how to fix that.
Oh, and one more thing: If you are using aluminum rings and a rail type mount, be sure that you didn't over-torque the screws that attach the base to the rail. A little bit too much torque, and the heads of the screws pull through. You can knock them back out and re-seat them with JB Weld.
Be not weary in well doing.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,937 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,937 Likes: 11 |
It looks to me like your rifle somehow has gotten the notion into its head that I am firing it.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,525 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,525 Likes: 2 |
I'm not a big fan of such small changes in charge or seating depth.
With many powders, a 30 degree F change in barrel temperature is equivalent to a grain of powder. If you're not controlling barrel temperature to within a degree or two, small changes in charge or seating depth will be completely swamped by the temperature change. If you can get it to work today, chances are it won't work tomorrow.
If it were mine, I'd start by re-checking bedding. After a little coaching from someone who understands better than I do, I found I could feel barrel rubs that I couldn't feel before. In some cases, I can feel the barrel rub "grab" on the ink on a dollar bill, and smoothly slide over unprinted areas.
If that is unproductive, I would remove the scope and bases.
Once in a great while, the front screw on the bases will bottom out on the threads of the barrel before the screw is tight. That's a hard one to detect. Remount the bases, put blue LockTite on the screws, and torque them all to spec. Insure that the rings are aligned so that they do not stress your scope when it is mounted.
Torque your action mounting screws to spec. Once you do, loosen the rear screw and see if the rear tang moves up out of the stock. If it does, you have a bedding problem.
Start your shooting test with a different scope.
For a short test, torque the ring screws to spec and see how the rifle is shooting.
Then switch back to the scope you're using. Put blue LockTite on the ring screws, and tighten them only to spec, so that the scope is not stressed.
Do not zoom the scope while performing these tests. You may have a situation where the scope does not hold zero while zooming.
Once you can get the rifle to shoot itty bitty groups without zooming, check to see if your scope returns to zero after zooming.
If none of that helps, then a good guess is that the barrel-receiver junction is not as rigid as it should be. Charlie Sisk knows how to fix that.
Oh, and one more thing: If you are using aluminum rings and a rail type mount, be sure that you didn't over-torque the screws that attach the base to the rail. A little bit too much torque, and the heads of the screws pull through. You can knock them back out and re-seat them with JB Weld. What in the Fiddlesticks Any other advice hell maybe buy a new rifle [bleep]... You say your not a big fan of small changes but looks like your a fan of big ass changes. To OP try seating the bullets like was said already .005
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,931 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,931 Likes: 2 |
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink. Waste of components.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,302 Likes: 37
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,302 Likes: 37 |
It looks to me like your rifle somehow has gotten the notion into its head that I am firing it. ....Atleast someone around here is honest...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,302 Likes: 37
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,302 Likes: 37 |
I'm not a big fan of such small changes in charge or seating depth.
With many powders, a 30 degree F change in barrel temperature is equivalent to a grain of powder. If you're not controlling barrel temperature to within a degree or two, small changes in charge or seating depth will be completely swamped by the temperature change. If you can get it to work today, chances are it won't work tomorrow.
If it were mine, I'd start by re-checking bedding. After a little coaching from someone who understands better than I do, I found I could feel barrel rubs that I couldn't feel before. In some cases, I can feel the barrel rub "grab" on the ink on a dollar bill, and smoothly slide over unprinted areas.
If that is unproductive, I would remove the scope and bases.
Once in a great while, the front screw on the bases will bottom out on the threads of the barrel before the screw is tight. That's a hard one to detect. Remount the bases, put blue LockTite on the screws, and torque them all to spec. Insure that the rings are aligned so that they do not stress your scope when it is mounted.
Torque your action mounting screws to spec. Once you do, loosen the rear screw and see if the rear tang moves up out of the stock. If it does, you have a bedding problem.
Start your shooting test with a different scope.
For a short test, torque the ring screws to spec and see how the rifle is shooting.
Then switch back to the scope you're using. Put blue LockTite on the ring screws, and tighten them only to spec, so that the scope is not stressed.
Do not zoom the scope while performing these tests. You may have a situation where the scope does not hold zero while zooming.
Once you can get the rifle to shoot itty bitty groups without zooming, check to see if your scope returns to zero after zooming.
If none of that helps, then a good guess is that the barrel-receiver junction is not as rigid as it should be. Charlie Sisk knows how to fix that.
Oh, and one more thing: If you are using aluminum rings and a rail type mount, be sure that you didn't over-torque the screws that attach the base to the rail. A little bit too much torque, and the heads of the screws pull through. You can knock them back out and re-seat them with JB Weld. Good post denton..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,179 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,179 Likes: 7 |
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink. This. Excuse me, I'm off a magnitude. Go deeper by .05 increments.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Could just be ignition; perhaps try the same loads with a couple different primers.
Or it could be that the rifle isn't quite in line with this powder choice.
Five shot groups might also tell you more; it looks like you basically have four shots in nearly the same hole.
Last edited by Klikitarik; 09/22/14.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,525 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,525 Likes: 2 |
I have a 338 wsm if I use 215 it patterns but use 210's it groups...
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,111 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,111 Likes: 6 |
Bedding Primer change Screws. seating depth. Also, the .240 Weatherby along with the .416 do not have freebore. They are the only Weatherby's with standard throating. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,179 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,179 Likes: 7 |
The action is bedded very well and the barrel is floated. Trigger is great. 26 inch barrel that is not quite varmint contour but definitely heavier than a standard sporter. I don't think it's a barrel heat issue.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,576
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,576 |
Seat bullets deeper .005 at a time your groups will shrink. This. ONE MORE TIME!
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd going the wrong way.
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