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Deflave, there are a few good looking folks living down here in Wyoming... But probably not as many as Montana.. I have been to Montana a few times ..... I prefer the looks of the people in Wyoming! Of course when you enter Montana from the south from here its rough going for a while til you hit Billings......
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Its rough going as soon as you hit Billings!
I am not a sniper so dots work fine for sub 400-500 yard hunting situations. If I am farther away then I sneak(which is more fun than fiddling with a scope anyway).
Now if you are shooting past 500 yards then a turret is way more accurate and easier. I don't so it's a moot point for ME.
Carry on with this badass, hardcore sniper conversation chit.....grin
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Big stick and boxer same guy? One in the same.
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OP
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Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44mm. Only showing holdovers using the reticle as the dialing looks the same. These are on 9x aproximately. 470 yards 12in plate, no wind. 470 yards 10mph wind 475 yards 5 in diamond, no wind 475 yards 5in diamond, 10mph wind
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Christmas tree on the LRHS does not subtend as far out as Rapid Z. Rapid Z tree goes out to 10mph wind value. If you have more wind than that, you will be holding on air though. I'll try and get some Rapid Z pics up for comparison Monday or Tuesday.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Campfire Ranger
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Excellent post Form. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
Roy
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This goes along with what Carl posted. Re- Horus Reticles. It is important to note that we have Horus reticles in every new military sniper optic because the issued Leupold scopes didn't adjust correctly.
This is pretty funny and incorrect.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
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I am not a sniper so dots work fine for sub 400-500 yard hunting situations. If I am farther away then I sneak(which is more fun than fiddling with a scope anyway).
Now if you are shooting past 500 yards then a turret is way more accurate and easier. I don't so it's a moot point for ME.
Carry on with this badass, hardcore sniper conversation chit.....grin My thoughts exactly "hardcore Sniper conversation". Funny how times have changed. In early 1979 I was ordered to attend scout sniper training in Quantico VA. Up until that time I had a lot of good buddies in the Marine Corps. Once I returned to the FMF, all my buddies treated me as if I had leprosy. Now it's cool to be or should I say play a SNIPER. My issued rifle back then was M40 it was topped with a Redfield tombstone 3-9 scope. We were ordered to set it on 8 power and don't touch it again. We sighted in for 600 meters and held over/held under. We learned the trajectory. We were NOT shooting at 6" or 12" targets. Hits were easy if you knew the distance! The hardest was judging the distance correctly. With todays technogy in accurate dial scopes and range finders...imo it's real easy to play sniper today!
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With todays technogy in accurate dial scopes and range finders...imo it's real easy to play sniper today!
Don't tell smoke or formy that! You'll start a chitstorm...
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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This goes along with what Carl posted. Re- Horus Reticles. It is important to note that we have Horus reticles in every new military sniper optic because the issued Leupold scopes didn't adjust correctly.
This is pretty funny and incorrect. You should be taking notes Burns.............. ....but more importantly, Form has stated many times what his guys (team members) use in competition on their personal rifles. I don't want to misquote him so I'll let him set the record straight as he is quite capable of doing so.
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This goes along with what Carl posted. Re- Horus Reticles. It is important to note that we have Horus reticles in every new military sniper optic because the issued Leupold scopes didn't adjust correctly.
This is pretty funny and incorrect. Educate us then.... I was on the ranges and at the meetings when it was being "sold" to the military. I was there for the transition from the 10x40 M3, to the 3-5-10x40 M3LR, the TS-30, 5.5-22x50 NF, 2.5-10x2mm NF, 3.5-15X50 NF F1, Leupold 6.5-20x50 34mm, and S&B PSR.
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Rapid Z at 572 yards. I could easily smack a deer quickly with a full value wind and odd yardarge. The reticle gets me as far as I will take a hunting a shot with ease and is not cluttered or confusing to my eye. Scope is a 2-10x42 set on 9x.
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Same for me. Only "problem" I could foresee would be in any wind value of > 10mph. Could still make it work, but would not be holding the reticle on POI under those circumstances. I easily make hits using the Rapid Z out to the limits of the reticle with wind blowing 13+ mph, as it does here most of the time, but that was not with a full value wind.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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ct,
Thanks for the referance. What was the power the scope was on? Could you take a picture with it "calibrated" for a 30cal 168gr BT or AMAX at 2,700fps to try and maintain the same representation?
Hondo and ctsmith,
Given that such discussions are difficult over the Internet, what are the advantages in the Rapid -Z over a good mil based reticle with mil adjustments in your experiences? If accuracy/speed references are used I would appreciate clarification- i.e. target size, time to hit, position, etc.
As far as the Rapid- Z goes, my statements about holding in air are not in reference to above or off the animal. Instead it means that if there is not a bisecting line accross the target (target being the spot you want to hit on an animal) then you are holding in "air" in the reticle. It is about the reticle, not the target. A deers vitals at 470 yards in a 10mph wind would be in between lines and hence- in air. I have used the Rapid -Z quite a bit. Had to shoot more rounds than I care with it.
How accurate is the mag range to know that you are on precisely the correct power? How is your ability to set it at that power precisely under time/physical constraints? How comfortable would you be shooting the drill I posted- 1 inch dot at 100 yards with zero offset to align with 470 yard/10mph mark?
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Everyone on this thread espousing the greatness of ballistic second focal plane reticles made by many rifle scope manufacturers would be very depressed if they had the equipment necessary to actually check to see if the reticle subtensions given by the manufacturer are correct. Then there's the problem with BDC trees matching the actual drop of your load. For them to work, the scope must be set to its highest power, and even then many are incorrect. I'd like to know if there is even one dude on this forum other than me that has actually tested a scope properly with equipment dedicated to the task? It's hilarious to read posts on the 'fire stating "this scope doesn't track, the click values of brand X are wrong, brand X doesn't adjust correctly" etc... posted by dudes who just guess.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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This goes along with what Carl posted. Re- Horus Reticles. It is important to note that we have Horus reticles in every new military sniper optic because the issued Leupold scopes didn't adjust correctly.
This is pretty funny and incorrect. I'd be interested to hear your military background champ.....I don't think you can hang with Form.... Am assuming you have proof of your claim?
Last edited by CLB; 09/27/14.
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This has been enjoyable. But you guys aren't saying that people actually think that they can take a ballistic compensating reticle. Shoot it with out FPS, bullet weight, BC, and all other normal info needed on the calculator. And expect to be where the manufacture of the scope says???
Take care, Willie
Cry to the heavens and let slip the dogs of war. For they must feed on the bones of tyranny. In order for men to have freedom and liberty.
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Chuck,
I have not timed shots with either the Rapid Z or Mil based reticles. I only know that it feels quicker to me to range, line up on or between the appropriate yardage lines in the Rapid Z and squeeze off the shot. I don't have to refer to a drop chart, only my wind value chart. With my LRHS or SS, I have to refer to my drop and wind value chart, dial the appropriate mil value on the elevation turret and hold the appropriate amount for wind on the reticle. I have not timed it, but have done both processes enough to know that it FEELS like referencing my drops and dialing takes me more time to do.
As far as target size goes, I've got three 8" round plates and one 12" round plate. I set up so that the 8" plates are at 300, 400 and 500, and the 12" plate at 600. I've used the Rapid Z in a 3-9 Conquest with my .308 barrel and the 2-10 HD5 with my .260 barrel. With the .308, I'm shooting 155gr Scenars at about 2873fps. The Zeiss Calculator said at my environmental conditions that 8x is where I want to be and that has worked perfectly. With the .260, I've played with it using 3 different loads, 140gr Berger Hybrids at 2750 (8.5x), 140gr Hybrids at 2700 (8x) and 130gr VLDs at 2911 (10x). In every instance, the Zeiss calculator has been right on, allowing me to consistently make hits on my plates out to the limits of the reticle. The Zeiss calculator provides the appropriate mag in .5x increments. The zoom ring on my Zeiss are marked in .5x increments. Setting it consist of glancing at the mag ring and verifying I am on the appropriate mag. Unlike using an elevation turret, the magnification required does not change from one distance to the next, which is nice.
I get what you are saying about target size. As targets get smaller, there would be a point where the Rapid Z would be a detriment. No way I'd be trying to hit 1" targets with that reticle. However, on my 8" plates, which are a smaller target than a typical Whitetail's vitals, I have found the Rapid Z to be no hindrance at all. I consistently get hits on my plates all the way out to the limits of the reticle, 600 yards. There is one advantage The Rapid Z has over my LRHS that I have definitely observed. The Rapid Z's reticle is more usable during the last ten minutes of legal shooting light. I loose the windage marks on the LRHS during the last few minutes. I can see the range lines and windage marks of the Rapid Z just a few minutes longer.
Dialing definitely has some advantages. It's more precise. It is better for small targets. I can stretch things out MUCH farther than the Rapid Z. If I want to play at farther than 600, I put the LRHS on. Only takes a minute. I haven't hunted with the Rapid Z yet. Will be doing so this fall. For the hunting I do in the places I hunt, I think it will do just fine, and for me, requires fewer mental gymnastics.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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I think Form is buying his targets from BGG.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Then there's the problem with BDC trees matching the actual drop of your load.
For them to work, the scope must be set to its highest power, and even then many are incorrect. Rick, In regards to the Rapid Z, that statement is patently false. With the Zeiss, you set the magnification so that the reticle best matches the trajectory of your load. It is very easy to do and works great. I have verified it many times, not by using instrumentation, but on actual steel. http://www.zeissrapidz.com/Calculate.aspxJohn
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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