Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats any rounded shoulder midrange wildcats?

Are there midrange wildcat calibers that incorporate rounded shoulders like the Weatherby full-throttle cartridges use?

It seems like such a brilliant design for internal ballistics, just wondering if any lower velocity cartridges use it.

I'm no physicist, but have read countless times that there is no magic in the Weatherby venturi shoulder. Rather, that the reason Roy Weatherby came up with the design was to keep average Joe from grinding a reamer for it so Weatherby could maintain control of it. My understanding for the increased velocity of the Weatherby rounds lies in the extended freeborn, not the shoulder design.

Believing this to be true, I doubt you'd see any advantage with the curved shoulder in any sized case.

John

I think you're getting your rifle cartridges and energy drinks mixed up.

I am currently working on such a beast (wildcat midrange cartridge)and have not yet decided on leaving the wildcat the double radius shoulder or not and while I agree that I may not be able to MEASURE any kind of difference in efficiency the thought does stick in the back of my head to leave it such just for "being different".

I've looked and have yet to find a straight angle estimate on what the Weatherby shoulder is closest to for fire forming. Those quoted on ammoguide (drawn into the photo on a couple) are obviously incorrect, IMO. The line drawn to display the angle is even VISIBLY different than the case shown. I believe this is due to WHERE Weatherby has indicated the neck bottom is.
When looking at the Weatherby rounds on hand, I respectfully "think differently" about it all.

While they use the place the straight neck wall ends for the measurement of the neck length, and this IS accurate for the straight walls, the neck APPEARS longer due to the first radius being an inward one and that part of the shoulder is VERY close to a line straight down from the bullet exterior vs the standard straight angle that immediately angles outwards.

While all is just a game of decimals, a deeply seated bullet in a case using the Weatherby shoulder type and seated "below the neck bottom" has a shoulder wall much closer to the bullet than a standard straight angle for about .050" give or take.

If this is a good thing or not is a personal assumption we each will make on our own. Such is the great thing about wildcatting, at least for me personally.

I'm building such FOR me.

People find what they are looking for when making any decisions and this also applies to likes and dislikes of any round, wildcat or commercial.

Some will look for a reason to LIKE one....and find such
Some will look for a reason to NOT like one....and find such.

A few will look only for any combination of recoil, muzzle blast, trajectory, bullet diameter, efficiency of amount of powder burnt etc that they desire and pick one from the "short list" totally oblivious to the cartridge appearance. I will always tip my hat in respect to those following this protocol but again, and as always, other's will have alternate opinions.

Some will even choose MOSTLY by only the ballistic coefficient of that bore's bullets per bullet weight.

To each their own. One can look and "read online" both pros and cons of every single factor used building a wildcat round and the Weatherby double radius shoulder is no different.

Unless the author has taken X number of wildcat rounds and built cases identical in every way other than the shoulder type and ran extensive tests comparing the two in rifles for each bore size built as closely identical as possible no one has "proof" of anything and are simply sharing an opinion (theirs),more often than not based only on "what they read".

Even if a person DID build the identical set ups above for such testing, the results would still be "iffy" at best. NO two rifles built as identical as possible, in even identical rounds, will produce identical results time after time.

So....sorry for the wordy reply but I can only offer this:

I do not know if such is a "better" design nor have I seen enough test data around for anyone to be able to "know" either. No offense to any feeling otherwise.

SHOULD I use the double radius shoulder, MY personal reasons will lie more towards the "cool looking" and "different" factors AND because the dies I'm using to form my newest "cat" have this shoulder and, in all honesty, I cannot come up with a reason to change it.....so far.

As in all wildcat builds .... this is subject to change until PT&G gets my reamer order.

God Bless and good wildcatting.

Damn, I just read that whole post.

LOL..........Sorry, Smoke!!
(Thankfully the OP didn't ask about the incorporation of a "freebore" or not too. )

God Bless

I have a bunch of oddball ammo that I havent ID'd yet, a 270cal, short belted magnum type case. Right at 2.070" case length and the Weatherby radius. So some one did a shorty Roy at some point.

while I'm babbling, any one heard of a 6.5 Ellsworth?? A 264win mag almost cleaned up the chamber...

I typically avoid anything Weatherby.
Benchrest is where its at for accuracy and reloadability and case life.
30 degree shoulders and long necks rule.

dave

Mr. Weatherby was trying to get a business going. This double radius is also used in sanitary plumbing. It doesn't matter how far the solids drop over these S drops. So too, it doesn't change the neck lengths so much between the 257 Wea. and the 7mm Wea. The same thing happens with the longer 300, 340, and 360 Weatherbys.

But I do feel that the brass can creep up these necks a bit quicker, over a few reloadings. So there's something to be said for a 30 x 8mm Rem. Mag., as a reloader's replacement for the 300 Wea.

IF.........building a bench rifle, all good stuff.

For a hunting round
All CARTRIDGES are more accurate than any shooter.
I've yet to see a difficult to reload case.
And I'll never shoot the number of rounds a bench shooter does while hunting, including target practice and load work.

"Case life" of the belted rounds I normally use load 15 times or more without issue. That gives me 1500 shots per bag of 100 brass, aka more than I'll shoot in my lifetime in a hunting rifle.

The lower angled shoulders of some really old rounds still git r done in style and as for neck length........this is a wildcat forum.

I decide what neck length I wish to end up with.

Only offered as "another opinion". As said, each decide individually.

There is no "wrong" way, IMHO.

God Bless

Wasn't there a line of wildcats based on .348 brass with the rims lathed off and rounded shoulders?

The name Van Hoffman Express seems to ring a bell.

I'd like to see a photo with some known case next to it for comparison!!

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses.