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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,540
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,540 |
Hey, shrap, I could swear I just saw a cat walking on the hood of your goat. Better go check on it...............
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,386 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,386 Likes: 5 |
I just used your technique (averaging the top velocity from ALL 40-grain handloads) with the Nosler data for both rounds. The .204 averaged 3627 fps and .223 averaged 3658 fps--and I'll mention once again that the .204 data was from a 26" barrel and the .223 from a 24". This follows the overall trend I found when crunching data from a bunch of sources, not just ONE. Thank you again for replying. So is it your contention that the additional 31 fps from the 223 creates enough additional recoil that it disrupts the sight picture enough that one cannot see their shot?
You started this discussion with a snide remark about how the .204 apparently "defies the laws of physics." You made that comment based on very skewed data showing the .223 produced less velocity than the .204 with the same bullet weight, when the opposite is true. One of the downsides of the internet is that one cannot hear voice tones or see facial expressions - The "defies the law of physics" was meant in humor. If you care to interpret it as a snide remark then I apologize for not adding LOL so that it could not be misinterpreted.
I don't really care how you personally perceive the recoil from the two rounds, or even how anybody else does. This discussion between you and me didn't start because of that. Instead it started because you attempted to prove, with a very limited and imperfect source of ballistics, that the .223 recoiled less. My original post did use limited data, however I do not accept that it was imperfect. As a matter of fact your reply only reinforces that there is so little difference between the two cartridges with 40 gr bullet that it is insignificant, which has been my point all along. Thank you for confirming that.
I have demonstrated several times, with a much wider selection of data from every source presently available, that the original numbers you used to calculate recoil were not representative of .204 and .223 muzzle velocities. You apparently can't accept that, which itself is an example of defying the laws of physics. Although you only used the limited Nosler data the numbers of only 31 fps difference lends credence to the difference being the two cartridges with 40's as insignificant. And since you, rather than I, posted the data that makes it even more plausible. Thank you, this has been a very enjoyable conversation.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,241 Likes: 31
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,241 Likes: 31 |
Dirtfarmer,
If you someday use your .204 and .223 with 40's on prairie dogs, where there's abundant shooting, you will notice one in disputable difference: The .204's bullets shoots flatter and drift less in the wind, and the difference becomes more noticeable as range increases.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,696 Likes: 47
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,696 Likes: 47 |
This whole thread is like turning on a light switch and a light turns on. I never gave much thought to the advantage of alternating current vs. direct current or the resistance of the filament in the light bulb that created light. All I really care about is that the light comes on when the switch is thrown...
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 830
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 830 |
sorry gentlemen. I hope I didnt open Pandoras box.... BTW... I just picked up a .204 in a model 10 savage for $400 and with factory 32g accutips it's pretty awesome. Can't wait to load for it. Even shot a field tipped arrow at 50yds left at the range. First shot took the nock, second and third in the shat. Should of saved the arrow...lol Thanks to all that suggested that i 'NEED' one....
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
Resident .204...and I got to watch everything......
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11 |
Dirtfarmer,
If you someday use your .204 and .223 with 40's on prairie dogs, where there's abundant shooting, you will notice one in disputable difference: The .204's bullets shoots flatter and drift less in the wind, and the difference becomes more noticeable as range increases. Thanks, JB. But everyone knows a .22-204 is a heap more gun than a mere .223... OUCH... Down here, no prairie poodles to plink at. I was Pronghorn hunting in NM a couple of years back. We drove thru a good sized prairie dog town, those suckers were running everywhere. Man, I could have forgotten about speed goats and spent the day plinking PD's. I gotta number of suitable PD rifles. Like the guy who was all dressed up and no where to go... DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 10/12/14.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5 |
Resident .204...and I got to watch everything...... That PD ate chili with beans,right? Nice shot....for an old person.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11 |
Resident .204...and I got to watch everything...... That PD ate chili with beans,right? Nice shot....for an old person. New benefit of the .204... Being able to see the bullet strike and see what you've just shot is good for seniors. Not enough time and distraction to forget what they just shot at... DF
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5 |
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11 |
And those old antique shoulder respond well to near zero recoil... Quite a round, that .204... DF
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5 |
Yeah,I know,that and a wet turd in hell. Whatcha think about this here firearm besides the Cabelas floorplate,Ingwe? http://www.gunsinternational.com/Ca...er-Grade-7MM-Mauser.cfm?gun_id=100470642
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5 |
And those old antique shoulder respond well to near zero recoil... Quite a round, that .204... DF Had a .204 Ruger in a Kimber Varmint. Now have a .222 Rem in a Sako Vixen,along with a .223 Rem in a Interarms Mark X Mini-Mauser.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,236 Likes: 11 |
That Super Grade is really nice. Barrel contour looks like a FW. Looks like you're set up for senior gunning with very nice, light recoiling rifles... DF
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5 |
The barrel contour is a FWT. IF I do get it,I would have a pair of Featherweight 7x57's.
Last edited by elkhunternm; 10/12/14.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
Get it! duh....
Make room in your safe by throwing a .270 away!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,169 Likes: 5 |
Throw a .270 away NEVER! Have plenty of room in the gunsafe. Whatcha think,a 4x Leupold or Lyman scope? IF I was to buy it.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,406 Likes: 66
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,406 Likes: 66 |
I'd not throw away a 270 either, great donor action.
Me
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
True dat.
Theres a number of proper chamberings that it can be turned into....
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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