Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles The MONTANA project

2 things. First, if that's the only combo you have tried you need to keep going. Second, you shhoting off a rest? Position the rest closer to the mag box.

Try some 165gr NBT's or Horn Interlockts.

Also, how fast are you "rapid firing" these groups of yours. What else if anything have you tried with your loads? Still have room in the box?

Very true. Reminds me of a story Finn Aagaard did in American Rifleman on a Jarrett built rifle, a .280 Ackley Imp.
Not knocking Jarrett rifles, but since names and statements were made in the article I'll state them here. The rifle was advertised as 3 shots in a half MOA, and in no case anything over 1 MOA acceptable. (I'm assuming for 3 shots).

The test rifle was built on a Rem 700 action, 22" Schneider bbl, McMillan stock & Leupold 2.5-8x supplied by the author. The 3 shot test groups shot by the builder averaged .358", the authors test groups averaged just under .400" with the same load.
The thing I liked about Aagaard's writing was he wasn't afraid to call it as he saw it. Jarrett made the statement that the .280 AI can meet and even exceed the velocities of the 7mm Rem Mag. Finn plainly stated "This is not so. The 280 Ackley is nothing but a .280 Rem blown out to less taper and a steeper shoulder... and obtain possibly 50 fps greater velocity, period."

Anyway, he fired two composite groups using the same backer to show the true consistency.
One backer had 82 shots in 3.189", the other 89 shots in 3.375".
This is a true measure of a rifle's capability. A half MOA capable rifle with real world 3 MOA reliability.

I also forgot to add that being really light does make them finicky off the bench in my experience. Without any meaningful barrel weight, they are 'lively' on the bench. Not an issue when shooting from the field, but mine does not like things like free recoil off a bipod. A bag under the mag and one under the butt of the stock and shoot just like off hand and things tighten up nicely.

RL15 / 175 SMK

Three groups of three shots followed by a single shot.

Barrel allowed to completely cool between groups. High 40's - low 50's, it didn't take too long but gave it generous time.

What I found interesting, though not surprising (nothing surprises me, thats why I shoot a 10 shot group) is that shots 4-10 are completely inside the first three shot group.

Also, 8,9,10, would measure in the .1's if not less.

I like 10 shot groups and having a high degree of confidence of what you can hit myself. Good illustration ct.

I'm guessing this was for various loads, not 80 some shots of the same load, right?

It's shooting as well as most rifles would shoot, picked internet targets aside. It's plenty accurate for a big game rifle.

I understand what you're saying and agree with the process, but I do think results might just be tainted a bit firing 10 shots in a row from a light rifle like that.

But that little rig does seem to be shooting very well! I'm loving my 308 Montana and 155 Scenars.

Tanner

RH, Agree on both points!

Tanner, The little rig will it done for sure. Let me come up there for testing. You take me on the hill in your neck of the woods and we'll see if it will close the deal. You in?

Headed for a tree with a starvation stick. I'll check in after dark.

Tanner,

You see the pic? Clint said he let the barrel cool completely between each group.

John

I just want my 84L to get here so I can be disappointed like the rest of you fuggers...

Yeah John, I did see that. I'm just referencing the initial post with the rapid succession 10 shot group.

Tanner

From the article I was under the impression it was 171 rounds fired of the same load over a period of days if not weeks, at two separate targets.

Funny , I recently bought a 84l in 06 off a guy who couldn't get it to shoot. I did all the kimber voodoo on it (after shooting it factory stock)and the only thing it will shoot decently and consistently is 155gr Scenars. Beautiful rifle , kinda disappointing how finicky it is. I have a few other mountain rifles that will shoot better than MY 84l , but again I do like the weight and feel of the 84l. Im sure whatever I shoot with it wont be disappointed in the groups . Minute of dead [bleep] is good enough for a mountain rifle I guess.

What bullets did you try and how bad is bad?

1.75 to 3.5 moa at 100M , Tried the following ,
Bergers (with ladder test)
155 VLd hunting
168 vld hunting
168 target hybrid
165 game kings
165 speer
180 Accubond
185 VLD Hunting
168 AMAX
Ballistic tips(cant remember the weight) which is ok imo cause they are cape destroyers)
Powders:
all the usual 06 powders

wound up with:
155 gr scenars
50.5 gr of Varget
3.235 OAL
.478 5 shot group

1.Full length tight bed (marine tex)
2.mag box shortened
3.mag box cut out lengthened
4.front scope base screw shortened
5.I also replaced the follower spring with one off a L/A adl rem 700 spring because my rifle wouldnt pick up the second round with the kimber spring in there.
6.Torqued action screws to 45 in lbs.

I have no doubt that others have had better luck and Im not bashing Kimbers , as I said I like the rifle.

No wonder...... You didn't shoot any Partitions......

Just teasing. Thanks for the info.

Tanner,

Notice that there wasn't much difference in group size between the first groups and the one where he let the barrel cool every three shots? I no longer believe its barrel heat that causes groups to open up, but rather that 3 shots is just not a big enough sample to be an accurate indicator of where the next shot is going to go. Same thing if you have a series of successive small groups that hit at slightly different POIs. They are just part of a larger group that is a more realistic indicator of what a rifle will do.

I do tend to not rattle off ten shots at once most times, but that's more to prolong the throat more than anything else.

John

What Caliber?

My 280ai hasn't had anything done, other than lighting the trigger. Screws torqued to 45lbs and it shoots everything well and most things very well.

Factory 280 loads also have shot well. Likes to be held tight, but isn't as picky as my faux ti on how it's held.