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I no longer believe its barrel heat that causes groups to open up, but rather that 3 shots is just not a big enough sample to be an accurate indicator of where the next shot is going to go.
Yep!
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If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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1.75 to 3.5 moa at 100M , Tried the following ,
Bergers (with ladder test)
155 VLd hunting
168 vld hunting
168 target hybrid
165 game kings
165 speer
180 Accubond
185 VLD Hunting
168 AMAX
Ballistic tips(cant remember the weight) which is ok imo cause they are cape destroyers)
Powders:
all the usual 06 powders
wound up with:
155 gr scenars
50.5 gr of Varget
3.235 OAL
.478 5 shot group
1.Full length tight bed (marine tex)
2.mag box shortened
3.mag box cut out lengthened
4.front scope base screw shortened
5.I also replaced the follower spring with one off a L/A adl rem 700 spring because my rifle wouldnt pick up the second round with the kimber spring in there.
6.Torqued action screws to 45 in lbs.
I have no doubt that others have had better luck and Im not bashing Kimbers , as I said I like the rifle.
What about some nice ping pong ball ballistics 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips?
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I no longer believe its barrel heat that causes groups to open up, but rather that 3 shots is just not a big enough sample to be an accurate indicator of where the next shot is going to go.
Yep! I think there's a lot of merit in that. I'm going to shoot a few 3 shot groups on the same target with my 308 Montana and see what I come up with. I'd be pretty pleased if the entire group looked similar to CT's. Tanner
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I no longer believe its barrel heat that causes groups to open up, but rather that 3 shots is just not a big enough sample to be an accurate indicator of where the next shot is going to go.
Yep! I think there's a lot of merit in that. I'm going to shoot a few 3 shot groups on the same target with my 308 Montana and see what I come up with. I'd be pretty pleased if the entire group looked similar to CT's. Tanner I try and use the exact same target every time I go out shooting. I start off each session with a 3 shot group. I then check the combined group size of a few sessions to determine shift in point of impact. Pieter
Last edited by m77; 11/03/14.
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I bought a 84L Montana in 270 as well. But I am sending it off to turn it into a 338-06 before I even shoot it lest someone think I own anything 270. 
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RL15 / 175 SMK Three groups of three shots followed by a single shot. Barrel allowed to completely cool between groups. High 40's - low 50's, it didn't take too long but gave it generous time. What I found interesting, though not surprising (nothing surprises me, thats why I shoot a 10 shot group) is that shots 4-10 are completely inside the first three shot group. Also, 8,9,10, would measure in the .1's if not less. ![[Linked Image]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LudblJl6U0M/VFZ1qAg1gaI/AAAAAAAACaU/1vKjUuT1MI0/w766-h835-no/photo%2B%287%29.JPG) How far off the lands?
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
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Max mag length. I didn't measure the lands but polished the bullet to verify that it wasn't into them. 2.810 OAL.
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I bought a 84L Montana in 270 as well. But I am sending it off to turn it into a 338-06 before I even shoot it lest someone think I own anything 270. Luke, Extremely wise decision! You don't want the anti .270 crowd scoffing at you! Everybody knows a 140 Accubond with a BC of .496 is barely able to make it past 100 yards!  The Campfire disdain for 270's keeps the price of rifles and components low and I am good with that.  Curious to see how the 338-06 turns out. Sounds sweet. Andy
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I bought a 84L Montana in 270 as well. But I am sending it off to turn it into a 338-06 before I even shoot it lest someone think I own anything 270. VERY interested in the 338-06. Been considering doing the exact same thing. I have a 338-06, but would prefer the 84L rifle. Let us know how it turns out. What barrel length/weight are you going with?
Last edited by prm; 11/03/14.
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Hondo and CT,
Are 100% spot on. The only thing barrel heat does is show you of there is stress in the system that needs to be fixed. Groups grow when you fire more than 3 rounds because 3 rounds aren't a "group". People use 3 rounds because they can lie to themselves. The rifles don't know whether it's the first round or the 15th. 10 rounds offer a good idea of where any one round will bland. There is no such thing as a "cold bore" shot. A sub 2 MOA 308Win Montana is about as good or better than what most will do.
Cut the bs, shoot ten and know what the rifle will do.
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Your testing does not have much to do with a hunting rifle! If it's a target rifle requiring multiple shots of course we test them that way. If your shooting was at 100 yards? Then the groups were ok for a hunting rifle. I have found that the first shot from a hunting rifles cold barrel is most effective in getting game. I fire one shot record it's impact and then fire another if wanted. I try to hunt that rifle with the barrel in the tested condition. Here is a target fired with my Kimber Montana 308! ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/160x213q90/r/138/003oep.jpg)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Here we go again! 
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Don,
10 shots has EVERYTHING to do with a hunting rifle. Take the rifle you mentioned above and fire one shot at the same POA 10 days in a row. The "group" ain't gonna be as small as what you show in the pic above. 2 shots is not enough statistical data to show anything.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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I have found that the first shot from a hunting rifles cold barrel is most effective in getting game.
Savage, Do you think that if I shoot 10 shots, hours apart, or days apart, on a cold bore, that I will get results different than the 10 consecutive shots groups? I have done it and the answer is it makes no difference. The combined results will be the same whether its one shot, three shots, five shots, or 10 shots. Are you saying that my results aren't typical?
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I am going to the range to shoot right now. The 270 WSM Montana is shooting best, the 06 custom is my pet and the 7mm WSM is in progress.  ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/160x213q90/r/11/jqn9.jpg)
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of course, he is a moron, surprised he hasnt shown up in the Fury thread to claim all of us that said good things about the German tanks and tank destroyers are Nazi sympathizers like he normally does....the guy has the same day of experience over and over and over again for decades and never learns a damn thing....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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I have found that the first shot from a hunting rifles cold barrel is most effective in getting game.
Savage, Do you think that if I shoot 10 shots, hours apart, or days apart, on a cold bore, that I will get results different than the 10 consecutive shots groups? I have done it and the answer is it makes no difference. The combined results will be the same whether its one shot, three shots, five shots, or 10 shots. Are you saying that my results aren't typical? IMHO and tell me if I'm not correct. There would be a difference if there were issued caused or revealed by barrel heat.
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