Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles The MONTANA project

RH, you are correct. Heat will show stress which will open up groups.

I'll bet that the "heat on a light barrel is bad" mentality stems from the era when most all rifles were unbedded and wood stocked.

Let me ask you this. Is it possible that such stresses would be completely repeatable with just 2-3 cold barrel shots, the first shots always being very close to the same place until the group opened up and started wondering around from heat, or would it be more likely to always shoot a pattern of X MOA size, shots landing anywhere within that area from first to last?

I shot my 7mm-08 Montana ten shots over 10 days at close to 200 yards prone off a pack and got roughly 2.5" with factory ammo. Some of it was the gun and some me. I hope to improve that with hand loaded ammo and more trigger time.

Depends on whether the barrel is jacked up. If the barrel is crap and has stress than it will "walk" and groups will string in a line consistently. Very few do this. What really is going on is that "groups" get bigger as you shoot more rounds (at least to a certain number, and then the group stays the same), and 5 or 10 round groups are bigger than 3.

Think about what size dot at 100 yards that you know without a doubt that on demand you would hit with every single round fired. Hint - it ain't a half inch dot.

This 30-06 custom was right on!

It put the first shot 2" high at 200 yds. Right where I want it!

From a cold fouled barrel. The way I will hunt with it.

If you do that every day for the next nine days, how big will the group be?

I suppose it's as likely to hit the target as it is anything else�

And you should read and comprehend the whole thread Don before commenting� Just saying'...

John

I have shot a few good 3 shot groups before on the same paper target and been pleased, until I realized that if I laid the targets over one another the group was only decent.

I've seen some impressive 10 shot groups put up by varmint guns and heavy tactical rigs, but not many by factory sporters. I still hunt with them.

What the hell difference does all this make in reality? For 99% of rifles at 99.9% of ranges anyone would consider reasonable it doesn't make a lick of difference.

I took a cow elk a week or two ago, my longest shot to date on five elk and for that matter on 11-12 elk hunts I've been a part of.

A whopping 125 yards, maybe a touch further. And the kicker is, my CDS had spun up 6 clicks and sure wasn't shooting to the same spot where I sighted it in at.

Guess what, elk didn't know or care and tasted mighty good last night on my dinner plate.

That's the funny thing about this accuracy stuff. We spend all sorts of time and money on it, and it's fun to pursue. But when it comes right down to it one really doesn't need much in the way of intrinsic accuracy for a big game hunting rifle.

Give me a 2 MOA rifle that doesn't lose zero, and I might not be completely happy, but I'll sure fill a freezer every year. Funny thing is, many of our hunting rifles are a lot closer to consistent 2 MOA shooters than <MOA if folks would be honest with themselves.

Some shoot further than 125yds and some targets are smaller than an elk's vitals. No jab there.

A smallish hog or coyote at 300yds is a bit more difficult target. I really prefer that my general-purpose big game rifles to be able to hit a 1.5MOA circle at 300 and 400yds. But yes, 90% of the time it is really not necessary for most of us.

All I know is if I could step out in my backyard and shoot.....I'd be shooting a LOT! Whether anybody else gave two schitts or not.....I'd be shooting.

Me too.

I have to drive about 20 minutes to my camp, but at least it goes to 400yds and nobody bothers me. Would be awesome to load up a few rounds, step outside in your pajamas, and shoot a group or two before breakfast.....

Bingo.....


But now that I can see your 3 shot groups it looks to me it is doing the dreaded 2 in and 1 out.

My "out my front door" range has resulted in me making significant investments in brass, powder, primers, and lead....

Well, here's 7 on the same dot anyways. I'll shoot the same one next time out, didn't have much time tonight. There are 4 right in the red, and the 3 on the right were all shot tonight.

I'm interested to see if the 3 on the right are due to a scope error, me canting the scope/shooting poorly, or if they are just part of the group as Clint has said.

Either way I'm pretty happy with a lightweight rifle shooting this way. 155 Scenars over IMR-4064 are producing 2860fps.



Tanner

For those shooting groups or single shots on multiple days, either leave your target up or use a level or a hand drawn line to make sure your target is in the same relative position each time. Imagine shooting a nice tight 1/2" three shot group 2" high. Now turn the paper a 180 degrees and shoot another 1/2" three shot group. What might have been a nice six shot 1/2" groups is now a lousy 4" group. It wouldn't be as noticeable if you are sighted in "dead on" but it could still make a difference. Just something some people don't take into account and one of the things I always wander about when people talk of "overlaying" targets.


Dave.

Tanner, nice work. Regardless of the answer, knowledge will be gained that only comes by bullets flying down range, and for me paper enlightens. Your setup has the ingredients to be sound, I doubt it is you canting the rifle, there is a possibility that it is sensitive to how you are resting it, but my bet is that the three is part of the group. We shall see.

When you get done with this 10 shot string rattle off 10 consecutive and see what happens.

Jay, a convenient range makes reloading laborsome, but I am not complaining. When do you want me to come shoot that buck?

Did you shoot all 7 together or the 4 and then the 3? If the latter, I'm guessing there was a small technique difference such as the cheek weld, or the rifle sitting in bag a little differently. Result on game would be the same though!

I use targets with precise grid lines, and I hang them using a level.

prm, I did fire 3 using soft bags, and the 4 tonight were off of a bipod using a rear bag. I'm sure that had something to do with it.

Tanner

Tanner,

What does your set up weigh?