Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 12 Gauge Slug Guns For Bears

Do you think it is a good weapon for bear or is it a dumb idea?

didn't we do this one a few months ago? tom

I wasnt here a few months ago, so sorry If I repeated something

Don't sweat it RMan. When you hang around here long enough you too will have heard most all of it once or more. To answer your question I am not a bear man and some of the Alaska boys will hopefully weigh in on this but to the best of my remembrance most of them though it was a bad idea.
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<br>BCR

sorry did not mean to come accross like that. if I remember correctly our resident PH jjhack is not impressed with them and the AK fish and game guys carry 375's insteand of shotguns for bear protection. tom

Rem man your question is not clear enough for a good answer. I see your a game warden in Tennesse as your occupation. You also listed several favorite rifles from 375HH and up! Pick one of those and don't waste your time with the shotgun slug! As a game warden you must have seen hundreds of deer killed with slugs. What do you think of the damage done to a smaller big game animal like a deer with slugs? Would you be happy with that performance on a 250 -300 pound black bear? A brown bear and grizzly?
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<br>If you want to hunt black bears over bait or with hounds it will work OK. If you want to shoot a black bear over 100 yards away I would really suggest a rifle. Many newer projectiles are available for Shotguns. The sabot type bullets may be an improvment in some areas but are pathetic in others.
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<br>In my home state you cannot hunt with a sabot slug because of the problems associated with them. My personal shotgun has a dedicated rifle barrel for shooting slugs. The accuracy is fine and the recoil leaves you with the impression you really have a lot of power. The recoil is not an indication of power with a 12 guage slug. That shotgun recoils as hard as my 458 Lott and the 458 Lott is so much more powerful it's not comparable at all.
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<br> The 12 gauge and the slug is a fair 100 yard "smaller" big game gun. Deer mostly and maybe average wild hogs. When the Pigs get bigger or the bears are getting over 300 pounds and over 100 yards away you really need a better tool. The Slug gun is a cheap way to hunt short range. It's not a good choice though.
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<br>If this question is in regards to Grizzly or Brown bear forget it!

JJ:
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<br>What is your opinion of buckshot @ stopping ranges? (ie less than 40 yds) Also, have you ever heard of something called a "Kodiak Flechette" load? I flew out of Ketchikan several times w/the same AT pilot years ago, and he mentioned that the load was illegal but very effective. However that guy was quite a character with something of a "reputation" in town. I usually beleived about 50%of his stories.
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<br>JimF

I hunted with a guy who used buck shot for bears and lions. He was only a hound hunter and never even looked at any other game but bears and lions. He was also a self proclaimed horrible shot which is why he chose the buckshot. He was the only hunter I have ever met who plainly admitted he was an awful shot. Most guys tend to be a bit boastful about their accuracy claims. This fella was 100% opposite.
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<br>He used the buckshot loads because "it was easier to hit them with" He also used hounds as I mentioned so his tracking and follow up were easy with 5-6 dogs. I never saw a bigger mess then with that silly buckshot. At close range it would blow a dinner plate sized hole into a bear. At further range It would knock a bear out of the tree but the bear would run and fight for a long time until shot again.
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<br>With this buckshot load the fella could not shoot comfortably while a bear was bayed by dogs because he was worried about hitting a dog too. So his chases through the woods with a badly blasted bear would go on for hours. Having seen bears run through the mountains with a jaw hanging loose and horribly bloody but not anywhere near death was a sick and disgusting event I wanted no part of.
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<br>This guy was selling bear dogs and at the time I was shopping for another one. His reputation among hound men was that he had some of the best dogs. It's how I got involved and was invited to this nightmare event. When I said to him you should just shoot that bear already and I asked if he had a slug so we could kill it on the ground, his reply was heck no the dogs are having way to much fun with him now!
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<br>After leaving this mess I realized he used the buckshot because he could slow a bear down for dog training with little chance of killing them outright. It had nothing to do with him being a bad shot. That was a story he told me and I was buying it for a while. He knew Buckshot was able to make bears less likely to escape and easier for the dogs to track and fight with. It's why his dogs had such a great reputation too. It was just a sick and very disgusting way to train them.
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<br>So my opinion of Buckshot is very VERY low. It will certainly kill a bear but I don't know if you will find it without dogs.
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Jim F,
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<br>I tested 12 ga OO at 10 yds, from a cylinder bore mossberg 590. I was curious about the suggestion to use buckshot against bears. What I found was I'd be lucky to get 1 or 2 pellets into the kill zone @ 10 yds. I also equate the killing power of a single ball of OO to be on par with a 32 acp pistol. The only argument in favor of buckshot is if one considers the entire load of shot making it in the kill zone, and if thats the case, then you should use a single projectile. If one is relying on the pattern to make up for lack of aiming, then one is trusting one or two pellets to do the job.
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<br>The correct tool for stopping dangerous game is a large rifle, period. There is some merrit to carrying a heavy revolver, for times when you won't have a long gun handy. I just don't see any benefit of a shutgun, unless it is the only weapon you have handy.

JJ,
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<br>Interesting, with your African experience, to read your opinion of buck shot. I remember reading various stories and books claiming that the weapon of choice by many a PH for going after a wounded leopard was a shot gun loaded with buck shot.
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<br>I also read an account by Dale Lee of a hunt for Jaguar in South America. The client insisted on using a shot gun and buck shot. Dale was not impressed with the outcome, and swore he would never be talked into such a thing again!

There is a difference between a Leopard and a bear or Jaguar where shot is concerned
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<br>An Average leopard will be about 100 pounds, bears will likely be 2-3 times that big with a much more solid body and lots of impact absorbing fat.
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<br>I'm no expert on Jaguars but they are one of the biggest cats on earth. Only lions and Tigers are bigger. An average Jaguar is likely 200 pounds or more.
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<br>Leopards are the most dangerous of all the "dangerous game" they will be on you in a flash and have zero fear. A rifle to make an accurate shot in the bush is tough with a leopard. They will likely be airborne and head high when you see them in your face. I too would prefer a shot gun over a rifle for a wounded leopard in the bush.
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<br>Leopards make no sound when they attack. A lion will rumble when you approach letting you know he's there, buffalo, elephant and rhino are so large you can often see them from a distance although not always. But a leopards silent spring from the smallest bush which hides him well is without question the worst of all the big five to follow up.

RemingtonMan07: You will find some information on shotgun use against bears at close range at the following site (under Bear Safety:
<br>http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/brownbears.htm
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<br>Also, in the book titled "bear Encounter Survival Guide," written by James Gary Shelton, he explains the reasons why he prefers some specific brands and models. For example, my Winchester "Defender" (1200) jams by the second to third shot if I use Magnum slugs. It seems that the shell expands and the chamber holds it tightly enough to stop extraction. I will polish the chamber in the near future, and maybe that will stop it from jamming.
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<br>Shotgun use at close range means 10 to perhaps 30 feet from you.
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Why would anyone want to use a shotgun over a rifle ? There is no advantage.
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<br>I can understand carring a 41mag or larger revolver. You are more likely to have it handy while you will have to set a rilfe/shotgun down.
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<br>Read some where about a guide that lead bear hunts with dogs. Guys that used a 41mag or more powerfull revolver did much better than those who used 45s, 357s and 38s.
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JJ,
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<br>I knew a fellow who crewed and did maintenance on Bell helicopters in SE AK. He claimed that the company that he worked for would not allow handguns, since the choppers went into Canada frequently and handguns are frowned upon there. He claimed to carry a Remington Model 870 with a folding stock, pistol grip, extended magazine and an 18" or 20" barrel. He said that they loaded one (1) round of smaller buckshot, like #4, in the chamber and then filled the magazine with Brenneke slugs. This was back in the mid-1970's, before sabot technology. The idea was to blind the bear with the buckshot and then kill it with the slugs. He had a picture of him sitting on a big dead bear holding the Model 870. He claimed that he shot it from the top of a Bell Ranger, OH-58, when the bear attacked him while he was checking on the rotor hub.
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<br>Do you think that a story like that has a reasonable chance of being true?
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<br>Sincerely,
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<br>Bearrr264

I have a single personal experience with slugs (Remington brand, Foster style) on big bears. Following a wounded 8 1/2' Kodiak bear in the spring of '97, I was moving up a very small ridge above a dense alder thicket we thought the bear was in, when my friend who was doing the tracking ran straight into the bear at 6 paces.
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<br>He was carrying an 870 filled with slugs and hit the bear 3 times, fast. I have to say that I was amazed at the penetration of those slugs and the damage they did.
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<br>The first cut hair on the top of the bear's head, entered the top of the neck, broke the clavicle, sheared 4 ribs, broke one more on each end of the sheared row, hung a right turn (bear was turning, so slug might have stayed straight) taking a huge slice through the diaphragm and pulverizing the liver, then, just in front of the opposite side ham, left the building.
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<br>The next entered amidships, crossing through the aft ends of both lungs before also exiting. The third entered as an angling away shot through the ribs, up through both lungs and out at the front of the opposite side shoulder.
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<br>While one bear is hardly definitive, that did seem to me to be a reasonable performance for a slug at close range... I was carrying a 375, and will continue to do so when provoking bears, though.
<br>art
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I too prefer my .338WM to a shotgun, but I believe the question relates more to a "self defense" gun than to a "bear hunting" gun.
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<br>I remember watching a documentary on polar bears from Churchill, CA, where a little old lady dropped a polar bear on her front porch with one shot from the shotgun. I don't think she had slugs in it either. The bear was maybe 15 feet away from her.
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<br>In relation to the information on "Bear Safety" in the site I posted above, it is recommended not to alternate 00 shot/slugs, but instead to only load slugs. The idea of using a shotgun for self defense is to attain maximum power at very close range. I certainly believe that at close range (within 30' or so) a person who knows his or her shotgun well can shoot much faster than a person who is using a scoped rifle, because aiming a firing a shotgun is much easier than looking through a scope to find the right spot then firing.

Ray
<br>I almost agree with you on everything, but when a bear is in need of shooting up close, ain't never been no scope on no rifle!!! You are looking down the general line of sight and working the bolt and trigger as fast as you can!
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<br>I have been there two times too many and always wondered where the extra brass came from... the friend who shot the bear I mentioned above swore he only shot twice and had to be shown 3 empties and three holes to accept the third shot.
<br>best to you
<br>art
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It seems to me that a 10 gauge pump with double 0 Buck and a high end slugs would sure take care of things up close. I don't know about any kind of big cats. I never hunted or seen proper way to do those up close.
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<br>Maybe even a double barrel 10 gauge with double 0 buck would work for those wounded cats to. My buddy visiting with me says NO out loud. You need a big caliber double rifle. I don't know about that either, only seen one on the internet. So what is the proper protocol for such a time in the wild?