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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,286 |
Brad,
What brought you back to the 7-08 Kimber MT configuration? Congratulations on the Bull Elk. WW, just wanted to play with the 7-08 a bit. Haven't loaded for one since 1999. This one behaves just like the other. It doesn't seem particularly fond of any 140's but bug holes 150 Ballistic Tips. Preferring heavier bullets seems like a trait a lot of 7-08's have. I've got a 308 MT barrel and will eventually turn it back...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,927
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
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The biggest question is if you own a 22-250 so you can interchange the ammunition at inopportune moments.  If I was to buy one, it would be a 7-08. Specifically because it is so close to a JOC.
Arcus Venator
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Bobin, no arguement from me, run many 708s and 270s, and never not liked any of them  Brad, my next, I mean if I get another 708, these will be the mainstay on deer: 140 AB 120 TTSX Those will also double on Elk as you know, however I too will choose a 150 BT for Elk. Rather less recoiling lighter bullets for paper thru deer/hogs. I ran 150 Yellows in my former 270s and my Sons now. They always shot more accurately than 130s and were hell on deer, with less bloodshot meat. It and the 154 are too oft overlooked bullets for the mild 7s. Better BC than lighter pills but stouter jacket than say an Amax.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If you're just going to shoot deer and schit it won't matter.
If you want to shoot distance you gotta look at BC and such. For example the 162gr. Gay Max has a BC of .625. To achieve that in the .308 you'd have to move up to the 208gr.
More recoil, mag restrictions, blah, blah, blah.
Just depends what you want it for.
Travis I was shooting 120's at 3000-3100 fps (NBT & TTSX) out of a Montana. Now shooting 162 GayMax at a mild 2600fps. Even at 2600, the 162 from the little Montucky is pretty dang good in the wind at extended ranges. Recoil of the 120's and 162 seem the same to me, shooting prone. Calcs show the 162 have ~8% more recoil. I don't notice it. The 162 load does seem a little easier to shoot/control. I swear the 120's had more hop off the pack. The 162 has a heck of a jump to the lands though... Jason
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,600 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,600 Likes: 1 |
I've run 3 or 4 Kimber MT 308's and currently have a 7-08 Kimber MT. They kick the same with equal bullet weights.
I use "standard" (non-monolithic) bullets in all my rifles, and all of them are loaded to tackle elk... for elk I like an SD of at least 0.248, so I run 165's in the 308 MT and 140's+ in the 7-08.
With any powder, the 140's and 150's in the 7-08 kick noticeably less than the 165's in the 308.
But 160's in the 7-08 MT get your attention like the 165's do in the 308. Etc., etc.
For me, 150's don't bother me in the 308 MT, but 165's are starchy. I'd certainly not hesitate to run lighter 125-130 grain bullets in the 308 for deer and you'll find them more enjoyable than heavier bullets.
A far as their effectiveness on elk sized game, the 7-08 and 308 are two peas in a pod when running similar bullets. This year I used 150 NBT's in the 7-08 and had great performance on a mature bull. Definitely similar performance to a 168 NBT from the 308.
Aside, 308 brass and loaded ammo are substantially easier to find in this part of the world than 7-08. Not that that should be any surprise.
Best,
Brad
makes perfect sense, Brad. Same motor, same payload... I decided many years back, that for bigger game I'd stick with bullets above .250 b.c. But aside from a couple of black bear hunts have not done any real big game hunting in years. For both whitetail and mulies I prefer a fast, expansive bullet, and pretty much ignore b.c. If I wanted every load to be elk capable your suggestions sound good, to me. Happy Thanksgiving to all here. Much to be thankful for in our home...
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,059
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
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I like the 308win due to it's ubiquitous and economy
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,457 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
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I cannot imagine the 7-08 would recoil much less than the 308 win, was wondering if there was enough difference in the two to justify a 7-08 over the 308 in a Kimber Montana. I reload so bullets of even 110 grains are available in 30 cal. Nope, but I think the justification goes the other way. The default is the 7mm-08, you have to find a reason to justify choosing .308 instead. There is one though it's kind of weird and maybe not for everyone. There are quite a few flat points meant for the .30-30 than can be shot from reduced loads in the .308. At one time there were a couple flat point 7mm bullets for the 7-30 Waters but I have not seen any on a shelf in at least a decade. In the Montana ... well, I have a .308 and wish I'd bought a 7mm-08 or .257 Roberts instead. I'm not real happy with it. I shot it today at 300 and it just will not do better than 2MOA. .308 is just not as much cartridge as I hoped for and the accuracy I wanted is lacking. After 3, maybe 4 years, it'll be going up for sale soon. Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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TOM I am curious about the .308 you own that does not group. Is it the cartridge or is it the rifle's inability to group. Or is it the cartridge rifle needs tweaking? I have been told Kimbers are not known to always being accurate. Correct me if I am wrong but is not a 7.62 mm a .308? 7 divided by 7.62 = 92% so we are looking at a 8% disparity in diameter.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
For reduced 708: 120BT, 139SST, and if real slow 120Vmax but avoid bone.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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TOM I am curious about the .308 you own that does not group. Is it the cartridge or is it the rifle's inability to group. Or is it the cartridge rifle needs tweaking? I have been told Kimbers are not known to always being accurate. Correct me if I am wrong but is not a 7.62 mm a .308? 7 divided by 7.62 = 92% so we are looking at a 8% disparity in diameter. I'm sorry but your words don't make sense. What do you mean by "cartridge rifle"? Where did you get the 7 to divide by 7.62??? If you'll clarify what you're asking, I'll try to answer. Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,640
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Please advise regarding advantages of 29-08 over 7.31X51mm.
The kid at the local gun store told me the 7.31X51mm was better because it was 4G capable, could run both Apple OS and Android and the battery in the Red Dot scope would last longer. And because it it is metric, it is LEEDS compliant.
I am a conservative with a lowercase "c".
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I've found both to be tractable, easy to load for and they both kill just fine. But the 308 barrel in the same contour will be a bazillionth of an ounce lighter.
Frankly, you can't go wrong with either. Flip a coin, and if it lands on edge, buy BOTH.
Up hills slow,
Down hills fast
Tonnage first and
Safety last.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,750
Campfire Outfitter
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TOM I thought a .308 inch bullet was 7.62 mm. That would be an eight percent increase in diameter over a 7mm.
By cartridge rifle I meant the COAL, powder charge/type, primer, bullet that may be specific for that rifle to improve performance.
I think basically I am really ignorant and should have just read and not posted.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If I were starting over from scratch, I'd give the 7/08 a hard look, but since I have a pile of brass and bazillions of .30 cal bullets, as well as several die sets, the .308 was an easy choice when I bought a new rifle.
Actually, after taking my first deer with a .243 Monday, it would be on the list too.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,126
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
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In the Montana ... well, I have a .308 and wish I'd bought a 7mm-08 or .257 Roberts instead. I'm not real happy with it. I shot it today at 300 and it just will not do better than 2MOA. .308 is just not as much cartridge as I hoped for and the accuracy I wanted is lacking. After 3, maybe 4 years, it'll be going up for sale soon.
Tom [/quote]
I have seen a lot of rifles shooting 1" groups at 100 yards do 5" or 6" groups at 300 yards. What I'm saying is before you give up on it, try out several different loads at longer ranges. Odds are real high your .308 can shoot some load of five shots into 3" or less at 300.
Last edited by StrayDog; 11/29/14.
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Campfire Outfitter
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thanks, I appreciate the thought, but I've been shooting this thing for 4 years and ... I know when I'm whupped. From my load notes it looks like I've put about 1100 rounds through it in load workup. This gun has always been very very load sensitive and somewhat unpredictable. Load development with it is a matter of chasing needles in haystacks. I can follow logical progressions but the results don't track predictably. Even when I get a good group in testing it's not repeatable. It shoots plenty well for 150-200 yards, not spectacular but adequate to make live deer into dead deer. Past that, forget it.
That's good enough for the things I've done so far but I want to try something new and the gun is holding me back.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Tom, I had a Kimber Classic 260 that was like your 308. I gave up on it after about 200 rounds. It got worse instead of better. I won't own another Kimber.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 64
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 64 |
TOM - Maybe glass bedding. I had two rifles with the symptoms you ascribe to your 308. I spent a lot of time on load development, glass bedding resulted in most loads shooting OK to very well.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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TOM I thought a .308 inch bullet was 7.62 mm. That would be an eight percent increase in diameter over a 7mm.
By cartridge rifle I meant the COAL, powder charge/type, primer, bullet that may be specific for that rifle to improve performance.
I think basically I am really ignorant and should have just read and not posted. No, not exactly. There are 25.4 mm per inch. The metric designations are imprecise approximations. Some cartridges specify land diameter, some groove diameter. There is no requirement for truth in advertising ... or accuracy in cartridge designation. So far as cartridge length, changing bullets, changing powders, etc ... I spent 4 years on this rifle doing that. It's a good idea but it's a "used"  idea. Or "BTDT". Reading is a good idea but eventually you have to jump in and get your feet wet. No problem at all! Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,144 Likes: 11 |
JoeMama,
Thanks for the info! I have been startled by the level of technical stuff inside the heads of kids at local gun stores before, but this takes it to another level. I've gotta catch up....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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