Close analogy but no ceegar, but maybe my ignorance of the law is showing, but it is my understanding that a DA can remand a case to trial WITHOUT a Grand Jury process and if they can't then my point has no merit. As far as the Grand Jury is concerned, just the "I cant breathe" supplication and the officer still kept the choke hold, plus the fact his death was ruled a homicide, let's just say, I'm glad I wasn't part of that GJ.
What a subject says has nothing to do with criminal prosecution.
The choke hold is a legal technique in the state of NY. Same as OC. If a subject says "I can't breathe" after being sprayed (they will) that doesn't mean anything. It only means he is experiencing the affect of OC.
As an aside, (and yes this would be presented by an expert witness) you can't repeatedly say "I can't breathe" if you can't breathe.
Travis
do you think it would make a difference had he said "I am having a heart attack" or "I'm choking" or "my pacemaker battery is disconnected?" (admittedly that last one was odd but I'm trying to show a sense of urgency here).
I guess my point is - once he was once the ground in that position, is there anything he could have said that made the cops immediately stop following thru with their subduing him to alleviate the stress he was under?
Last edited by KFWA; 12/04/14.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
It's obvious the chokehold didn't kill him. It lasted 15 seconds by my count. I think the big boy got so worked up that his heart simply gave out. I can't see how anyone could be indicted in this case. The GJ got it right.
No, because the cops are trained to not listen to those pleas as it will get them hurt or worse more often than not. They will stop once they have him restrained, which is what they are trained to do and what they did in the case.
do you think it would make a difference had he said "I am having a heart attack" or "I'm choking" or "my pacemaker battery is disconnected?" (admittedly that last one was odd but I'm trying to show a sense of urgency here).
I guess my point is - once he was once the ground in that position, is there anything he could have said that made the cops immediately stop following thru with their subduing him to alleviate the stress he was under?
I cannot answer what would or would not cause a person I don't know to stop doing what they're doing.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Close analogy but no ceegar, but maybe my ignorance of the law is showing, but it is my understanding that a DA can remand a case to trial WITHOUT a Grand Jury process and if they can't then my point has no merit. As far as the Grand Jury is concerned, just the "I cant breathe" supplication and the officer still kept the choke hold, plus the fact his death was ruled a homicide, let's just say, I'm glad I wasn't part of that GJ.
What a subject says has nothing to do with criminal prosecution.
The choke hold is a legal technique in the state of NY. Same as OC. If a subject says "I can't breathe" after being sprayed (they will) that doesn't mean anything. It only means he is experiencing the affect of OC.
As an aside, (and yes this would be presented by an expert witness) you can't repeatedly say "I can't breathe" if you can't breathe.
Travis
do you think it would make a difference had he said "I am having a heart attack" or "I'm choking" or "my pacemaker battery is disconnected?" (admittedly that last one was odd but I'm trying to show a sense of urgency here).
I guess my point is - once he was once the ground in that position, is there anything he could have said that made the cops immediately stop following thru with their subduing him to alleviate the stress he was under?
Moron,
The "I can't breeve" was AFTER the arm was removed, and the cops had him subdued. They sat him up and called EMS.
Once the arrest was commenced, and fat ass resisted, there wasn't any stopping until he was subdued. That's the way that cookie crumbles. He was under arrest; he resisted. The rest played out because of those facts.
Then again, you're probably not smart enough to figure that much out this time, either.
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
Sorry Clark, Dick Austin and TRH disagree with us.
They can disagree all they want but the fact remains that a subject matter expert (SME) would testify that it is a physical impossibility to continue to speak when you cannot breathe.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
No, because the cops are trained to not listen to those pleas as it will get them hurt or worse more often than not. They will stop once they have him restrained, which is what they are trained to do and what they did in the case.
ok, so lets take it a step further - would it be true to say that anything that happens during subduing the suspect that is life threatening to the suspect will be ignored until the process of subduing the suspect is complete?
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
Close analogy but no ceegar, but maybe my ignorance of the law is showing, but it is my understanding that a DA can remand a case to trial WITHOUT a Grand Jury process and if they can't then my point has no merit. As far as the Grand Jury is concerned, just the "I cant breathe" supplication and the officer still kept the choke hold, plus the fact his death was ruled a homicide, let's just say, I'm glad I wasn't part of that GJ.
What a subject says has nothing to do with criminal prosecution.
The choke hold is a legal technique in the state of NY. Same as OC. If a subject says "I can't breathe" after being sprayed (they will) that doesn't mean anything. It only means he is experiencing the affect of OC.
As an aside, (and yes this would be presented by an expert witness) you can't repeatedly say "I can't breathe" if you can't breathe.
Travis
do you think it would make a difference had he said "I am having a heart attack" or "I'm choking" or "my pacemaker battery is disconnected?" (admittedly that last one was odd but I'm trying to show a sense of urgency here).
I guess my point is - once he was once the ground in that position, is there anything he could have said that made the cops immediately stop following thru with their subduing him to alleviate the stress he was under?
Moron,
The "I can't breeve" was AFTER the arm was removed, and the cops had him subdued. They sat him up and called EMS.
Once the arrest was commenced, and fat ass resisted, there wasn't any stopping until he was subdued. That's the way that cookie crumbles. He was under arrest; he resisted. The rest played out because of those facts.
Then again, you're probably not smart enough to figure that much out this time, either.
you have some serious issues with me at this point don't you?
are you capable of having a discussion without being a jerk?
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
No, because the cops are trained to not listen to those pleas as it will get them hurt or worse more often than not. They will stop once they have him restrained, which is what they are trained to do and what they did in the case.
ok, so lets take it a step further - would it be true to say that anything that happens during subduing the suspect that is life threatening to the suspect will be ignored until the process of subduing the suspect is complete?
If you resist, you bring that schit on yourself. The answer is yes. To answer otherwise would mean that no potentially deadly force would be allowed regardless of the level of resistance, and that's just stupid.
Then again, I consider the source of the question and understand why the question and situation is stupid.
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
you have some serious issues with me at this point don't you?
are you capable of having a discussion without being a jerk?
I can easily have a discussion without "being a jerk", as I have many times over.
I don't suffer fools or cowards well.
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
It's obvious the chokehold didn't kill him. It lasted 15 seconds by my count. I think the big boy got so worked up that his heart simply gave out. I can't see how anyone could be indicted in this case. The GJ got it right.
Although given your past rationalizations and illogical arguments on myriad subjects is suspect (at least in my opinion which is all that matters), I agree with your assessment. But that was not my point. What is being FED to the unwashed and stupid (Gruber was right) is the video and when I man on the ground says "I can't breave (sic)", he dies AND, AND the Coroner rules it a homicide, what else can we expect. Hell, even our resident "so called" moderates and kooks are hanging the cop. Which BTW, just for violating Dept Policy and all the issues he's caused, I'd fire his ass.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
No, because the cops are trained to not listen to those pleas as it will get them hurt or worse more often than not. They will stop once they have him restrained, which is what they are trained to do and what they did in the case.
ok, so lets take it a step further - would it be true to say that anything that happens during subduing the suspect that is life threatening to the suspect will be ignored until the process of subduing the suspect is complete?
Yes, safe to say that, and that is per their training as well.
I'm sure you could find an extreme circumstance that would contradict that but in general that is a true statement.
My blood pressure is fine, thank you. I can breathe easily, my heart rate is low, my weight and cholesterol are well within bounds, and I don't put myself in positions where I'm going to be arrested and taken down for resisting arrest.
I also don't back off of doing the right thing when called upon to do it.
I have faith in our criminal justice system, because I believe most people - unlike you - aren't that stupid as to not understand jury instructions and most people - unlike you - are not so cowardly as to be "browbeaten" into a miscarriage of justice by a DA "being mean" to them.
You're asking stupid questions, setting up ridiculous situations, and not going by the actual facts presented to the Grand Jury.
No damned wonder OH went for Hussein twice. Hell, you're probably union, too.
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
What's even more obvious, is that if choke holds killed people, they wouldn't be a legal means of less lethal force in the state of NY.
Travis
I just can't see anything in that vid that would cause the guys death except a catastrophic heart issue of some sort. Asthma attacks don't kill that quickly, do they?
No, because the cops are trained to not listen to those pleas as it will get them hurt or worse more often than not. They will stop once they have him restrained, which is what they are trained to do and what they did in the case.
ok, so lets take it a step further - would it be true to say that anything that happens during subduing the suspect that is life threatening to the suspect will be ignored until the process of subduing the suspect is complete?
Yes, safe to say that, and that is per their training as well.
that's interesting to me. I'm not sure I'd agree with that as a policy but if the answer was no, then it would be subject to interpretation which would open up a whole can of worms.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
ok, so lets take it a step further - would it be true to say that anything that happens during subduing the suspect that is life threatening to the suspect will be ignored until the process of subduing the suspect is complete?
Your question is a hypothetical that cannot be answered.
When analyzing the legal amounts of force used, you have to exam the totality of the circumstances surrounding the event in which they were used. This is why cases go before a GJ and ultimately trial.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
My blood pressure is fine, thank you. I can breathe easily, my heart rate is low, my weight and cholesterol are well within bounds, and I don't put myself in positions where I'm going to be arrested and taken down for resisting arrest.
I also don't back off of doing the right thing when called upon to do it.
I have faith in our criminal justice system, because I believe most people - unlike you - aren't that stupid as to not understand jury instructions and most people - unlike you - are not so cowardly as to be "browbeaten" into a miscarriage of justice by a DA "being mean" to them.
You're asking stupid questions, setting up ridiculous situations, and not going by the actual facts presented to the Grand Jury.
No damned wonder OH went for Hussein twice. Hell, you're probably union, too.
At the end of the day I can converse with someone without going on a insult filled rant.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
