Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Fast twist = faster death?

From prairie dogs to deer. Obviously, prairie dogs were the subject of explosion and lift.

Billy,

That statement kinda hits the nail on the head. That's what I've always experienced with cup and cores. They bust the heart and lungs, then pile up after a short death run.

I've seen different results with mono's. I've seen some long death runs after the heart and lungs were punched....longer than I expected from a good shot and longer than those shot with cup and cores.

But I've also seen hearts and lungs punched with fast twist barrels shooting monos pile up a little quicker than shots from slower twisted barrels of the same/same. (Same bullet, same cartridge, same load, etc.)

Maybe coincidence, that's why I asked...just curious as to others results.

My opinion is it's between the operators ears.

Truth is, most shooting mono's drop down a step or two in bullet weight, increasing velocity. I think it's a fairly well established reality that velocity does wonderful and noticeable things to game animals at the end of a rifle barrel.

To drop critters even quicker, couple frangible with velocity.

I've got little experience with it, but the 155 pound whitail I punched with a 127LRX from my 6.5CM only made about 30 yds and he was damn near full run when I shot him. A sample of one, but I'm begining to think there's something to it. I might even have a 8" twist 7mm-08 AI Hart Barrel in the works for my 84m so I can conduct testing w/ 145grn .284 LRX's.....

David

shortactionsmoker;
Good evening to you sir, hopefully this finds you and yours doing acceptably well.

A short while ago I started a similar thread - I was going to say parallel, but perhaps that's overstating it some.

Anyway here's a link to that one should you be interested in reading the responses.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../Tissue_Damage_270_vs_6_5x55#Post9248055

The highlights for me were that when I finally measured the twist on the .270 barrel I was using it was slower than normal. That coupled with sluggish velocities for a .270 and my using TSX/TTSX/GMX bullets made for less than stellar performance - for a .270 anyway.

Anyway I believe enough in faster twist enough that I went to the garage, unscrewed the barrel and that action is at the gunsmith up the valley as I type this - having a fast twist 6.5x55 barrel installed.

Hopefully that was of some use to you or someone out there tonight. All the best to you and yours in this Christmas season.

Dwayne

Talk about fast twist. This sharps puts them out with a 1/36 twist. Not for the faint hearted...

I've whacked several running Montana whitetail does (approximately the same size as your buck) over the last few years with a 14 twist 223 AI firing 40 grain Ballistic Tips. They went about the same distance.

So it goes around twice in that barrel huh?

And I've shot a bunch with 140NBT's, 140AB's, 150SST's, etc that did the same. My previous experience with Barnes was that they penetrate fantastic, but often don't bring a quick stop if bones aren't hit. This was the first deer I've punched lungs with a Barnes that basically piled up mid stride. Again, it's a sample of one, but I liked what I saw.


David

I have noticed this^^^^^.

But I have never noticed any difference on deer sized game...

I seem to recall Litz discussing this awhile back. The difference in torque from one twist to another doesn't amount to much.

To be honest with you, I haven't been very impressed with monos on deer unless the velocity was pretty high (like 3500 fps or more). Maybe extra twist would help, but I've seen game shot with monos out of fast twist 22s and 6s which didn't exhibit any difference in dying compared to slower twisted versions of same.

I haven't seen it in regards to monos but I don't doubt it exists.

Monos have killed slower in my experience. God only knows how far critters would run if I wasn't pushing them at 3400+

Probably a mile or two....

Faster death...
How do you know?
The last few years I have been shooting deer at very close ranges.
I always thought they were instantly dead. Well by the time I used to grab my gear and walk a hundred or two hundred yards it would be. Get to one neck shot at 30 yards and you find its a different show.
I've had about half a dozen in the last couple years still breathing, blinking and with a beating heart for 2-3 minutes after being dropped from CNS hits.
So...I think your forming an idea based on inconclusive data, preference seeking outcomes and a lack of information.
Things die and things stop.
The two ain't always the same.
I'm less concerned with TOD and more concerned with instant incapacitation.
For that trick only one thing is sure to do the trick. Breaking or disruption of the signals from the brain to the spinal column below C-4. The further away the bullet physically is from the vetebras the more nessasary fluid shock is. A small caliber FMJ strike ON a veterbra will work, that's same projectile through the lower neck will simply pass through. An AMAX, BT or cup\core varmint style bullet any place near the spine seems to be enough to displace massive amounts of tissue, sufficient to break the systems ability to transfer the RUN signal.
Furthermore, I've found, a deer moving likely will continue moving and one standing calmly still will likely drop to the shot.

I agree totally -

I noticed many years ago when I shot a lot more coyotes with a 1:7" and a 55 grain Vmax they would just die immediately. Like electrocution.

Same bullet, same ranges, 1:12", results from coyotes are just different.

I have seen it and totally agree with it.

My gunsmith has been building 8 twist .30cal rifles for years for long range hunting with excellent results. Superb accuracy and quick kills with 200gr SMKs in .300 Win Mag and faster cartridges. I may order a fast twist barrel for my Savage 116 when cash flow improves, just to try it out. And in last year's issue of issue of Sniper Magazine was an article by Todd Hodnett: "The Future of Twist Rates". He's been working with a 1:7.8 twist .308, and a buddy of his is using a 1:4 twist .308 with fine results. Don't know if any of you have seen this yet, but it's an interesting read. I did a quick search for the article, but couldn't find it on line. Perhaps someone with stronger google fu can find it.

Was that doe even dead when you took that pic?

So what you're saying is you don't shoot fast twist rifles, but you can guess. Got it!

I have absolutely noticed a difference when shooting rat sized vermin.




Travis

Years ago, it occurred to me that the fast twist was the reason the old 7by57 had such a reputation for quick kills. A thin-jacketed 139gr. c&c at 2800 probably threw off a lot of jacket on its way through.