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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,901 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,901 Likes: 11 |
As for whitetails themselves, I don't care much for them. They are the American equivalent of 'roo's. Too many, very little in the way or quality animals and they are a damn pest on the roads.
Now mulie's.......they are special. Those, I really like and would give up a dozen white tails to one any day.
John Lots of 'welfare' mule deer living in a few Montana towns. And if you wouldn't try to shoot a big whitetail when it popped up in mule deer country you are kidding yourself. Whitetails can be every bit if not more fun more to hunt than mule deer. Nothing much smarter than a mature whitetail buck that has seen a little pressure. Of course it all depends.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555 |
For no more than the cost of the licenses, lodging, fuel, food. Here's 7 days worth of hunting and a day's worth of travel starting Thurs before Turkey week: Pard who hunted w/me: Me again: 2 pards and their 16 and 12 yr old sons hunted along with us and also took deer during that period. I'm sure as hell not "Big Time". I'm barely knocking on the door of "Avid" since the couple kids came along. With them has also come the realization that for some things, "Time" is far more precious than "$$". So, if you gotta spend a bit of $$ to maximize that precious time, then so be it.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,088
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,088 |
As for whitetails themselves, I don't care much for them. They are the American equivalent of 'roo's. Too many, very little in the way or quality animals and they are a damn pest on the roads.
Now mulie's.......they are special. Those, I really like and would give up a dozen white tails to one any day.
John And if you wouldn't try to shoot a big whitetail when it popped up in mule deer country you are kidding yourself. Your comment not mine, and I would likely take the opportunity if it was an either species tag and the opportunity presented but the topic was paying for a whitetail hunt and I am simply not interested in them as an animal of focus so again, my answer is no. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,291
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,291 |
I think the question that needs to be asked is should I pay to hunt, not would I pay.......
The number one enemy of the hunter in this country is not PETA, the Sierra Club, or the Humane Society, it is the hunter himself...Our hunting heritage began to die the minute the first hunter decided to pay for access to private land or pay to be led around by the hand by an outfitter.
As we all strive to kill TV sized game, more and more private land gets leased every year by outfitters. Meanwhile groups of average hunters are scrambling to keep pace by consolidating funds and carving out a lease of their own via hunt clubs..
Those who cannot afford to lease or are just not willing to, are eventually displaced. It's why the public lands get more crowded every year! Folks like Tedthorn who get sick of the public land hunting pressure either quit hunting or try to keep pace with outfitters. I have followed Ted's posts over the years and I know where he leases. I know because 20yrs ago I used to knock on doors up there and get permission to hunt for free.
The days of knocking on doors and gaining permission are largely over. Landowners know that there is no shortage of people willing to line up with their wallets out...... Those who think they can continue to keep pace with outfitter lease rates are kidding themselves. The average group of guys simply cannot compete with an outfitter running as many hunters a year as possible...
This has become our hunting culture. Largely predicated by hunting shows, social media, and the urbanization of this country. The longer we allow this culture to continue without even giving it some thought, the more the average hunter is going to get shut out. Forming hunt clubs and consolidating funds is a great idea but it is not going to work forever. There are simply too many people willing to pay an outfitter a lot of damn money to shoot trophy animals...
How long before the lease rates become so high that it requires so many average guys to fund a hunt club that the lease itself begins to resemble public land hunting? Not long fellas!
The single most important factor in changing this culture and continuing the hunting heritage passed down to us lies with the next generation and their fathers. That's us dumb asses, wake up!
It is our duty to pass down the heritage of hunting but more and more dads are finding it difficult to take their kids hunting simply because there are increasingly less and less places to go..
We have got to change this trophy animal no matter the cost mentality. We as trophy hunters are doing far more damage to ourselves than the anti hunting groups ever could.
I find myself resentful of what we as hunters have become. We have got to stop paying outfitters for private land access or for sh+t we can do ourselves.....Period!
See signature line.........................................
X-VERMINATOR
Last edited by xverminator; 12/08/14.
Sooner or later our heritage of hunting is going to be a rich mans sport and the words "Outfitter" and "Hunt Industry" will be synonymous with cancer and A.I.D.S. among blue collar hunters like me and my family! (A.L. Williams - 2010)
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,200 |
We all pay one way or the other. I would never pay to get my hand held.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,576
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,576 |
I think the question that needs to be asked is should I pay to hunt, not would I pay.......
The number one enemy of the hunter in this country is not PETA, the Sierra Club, or the Humane Society, it is the hunter himself...Our hunting heritage began to die the minute the first hunter decided to pay for access to private land or pay to be led around by the hand by an outfitter.
As we all strive to kill TV sized game, more and more private land gets leased every year by outfitters. Meanwhile groups of average hunters are scrambling to keep pace by consolidating funds and carving out a lease of their own via hunt clubs..
Those who cannot afford to lease or are just not willing to, are eventually displaced. It's why the public lands get more crowded every year! Folks like Tedthorn who get sick of the public land hunting pressure either quit hunting or try to keep pace with outfitters. I have followed Ted's posts over the years and I know where he leases. I know because 20yrs ago I used to knock on doors up there and get permission to hunt for free.
The days of knocking on doors and gaining permission are largely over. Landowners know that there is no shortage of people willing to line up with their wallets out...... Those who think they can continue to keep pace with outfitter lease rates are kidding themselves. The average group of guys simply cannot compete with an outfitter running as many hunters a year as possible...
This has become our hunting culture. Largely predicated by hunting shows, social media, and the urbanization of this country. The longer we allow this culture to continue without even giving it some thought, the more the average hunter is going to get shut out. Forming hunt clubs and consolidating funds is a great idea but it is not going to work forever. There are simply too many people willing to pay an outfitter a lot of damn money to shoot trophy animals...
How long before the lease rates become so high that it requires so many average guys to fund a hunt club that the lease itself begins to resemble public land hunting? Not long fellas!
The single most important factor in changing this culture and continuing the hunting heritage passed down to us lies with the next generation and their fathers. That's us dumb asses, wake up!
It is our duty to pass down the heritage of hunting but more and more dads are finding it difficult to take their kids hunting simply because there are increasingly less and less places to go..
We have got to change this trophy animal no matter the cost mentality. We as trophy hunters are doing far more damage to ourselves than the anti hunting groups ever could.
I find myself resentful of what we as hunters have become. We have got to stop paying outfitters for private land access or for sh+t we can do ourselves.....Period!
See signature line.........................................
X-VERMINATOR wow, there is someome else out there that thinks like me.yes,i agree the more they pay to hunt the more land we lose.allowing farm raised deer is not helping at all . people see those huge protiened to death bucks(and most are stupid looking)and they have to kill one.when a man can get 5k for someone to come and kill a deer it doesn't take long til he will want more land and more paying hunters. tv is mostly to blame for the trophy buck craze. hell,we used to hunt in blue jeans but we all know you can't do that these days.
Last edited by srwshooter; 12/08/14.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,645 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,645 Likes: 1 |
just to many good whitetails in this country on puplic land and private land that can be had.i just can't see me ever spending the money for a outfitter to hunt them. Yes. But I'd never pay to kill a deer - I DO occasionally pay for the right to hunt them. Have you never once dreamed of hunting in Canada? Or perhaps a different state?
WWP53D
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,329
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,329 |
A neighbor of mine decided to forego hunting on his own property one year to go to Illinois to hunt "real deer." He paid out the ying-yang to go hunt the same sort of terrain on the other side of the Ohio River a few hundred miles downstream from us.
The result? I think he got skunked. His son, hunting on Dad's property got a nice 10 pointer that season.
Go figure.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,859
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,859 |
Not sure how things work in the U.S, but here in Canada we have something called a hunter/host license. It means that as a Canadian, I can have a friend or relative from the U.S come over and buy non-resident tags and go hunting with me. I also cannot charge for that service, by law. You can come every 3 years. Myself and a friend have both done this one several occasions, for whitetails,elk and moose. A few years ago I would have been happy to bring someone down to hunt whitetail, as populations were excellent and I always knew the location of at least a couple bucks that would have pushed 170+. We've had a couple consecutive bad winters which has really hurt the population,and since I moved to a new area its been pretty tough going. Starting to get it figured out a bit and seeing some good bucks again. Hoping for a couple good winters and I should be on the trail of some hogs again.
For those of you who have friends/relatives in Canada, you might consider going the hunter/host route as a less expensive way to hunt an area with at least the potential to take a really good buck.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,291
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,291 |
just to many good whitetails in this country on puplic land and private land that can be had.i just can't see me ever spending the money for a outfitter to hunt them. Yes. But I'd never pay to kill a deer - I DO occasionally pay for the right to hunt them. Have you never once dreamed of hunting in Canada? Or perhaps a different state? I can't speak for anyone else but I hunt different states all the time. I've seen absolutely no reason to hire an outfitter. Canada is a different argument all together as it is required by law to hunt there. Which raises the question, how did those laws get passed in the first place? Don't know much about Canadian politics but you can bet your butt that similar laws that have passed in the US (Alaska, Wyoming) is because outfitter dollars lined lobbyist pockets....... X-VERMINATOR
Last edited by xverminator; 12/08/14.
Sooner or later our heritage of hunting is going to be a rich mans sport and the words "Outfitter" and "Hunt Industry" will be synonymous with cancer and A.I.D.S. among blue collar hunters like me and my family! (A.L. Williams - 2010)
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,576
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,576 |
score means didlysquat to me on a whitetail. i kill what ever i'm in the mood to kill when it comes along. i like to kill mature bucks when ever possible. i killed a 6 1/2 this year and a 4 1/2 last year. well ,so they say.they came from one of my huge tracts of land,a whole 20acres.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555 |
score means didlysquat to me on a whitetail. Sure seems to given the amount of thinking you're giving to how other folks go about filling a tag.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,082
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,082 |
I won't say I'd never pay for a whitetail hunt, but it's way down on my list or wants. Too many of them around here that I can hunt for free and I already have a nice one on the wall.
Seems to me that if I ever get the chance to travel out west for a few days for a mule deer or elk hunt, paying someone who knows the area to help me in my quest makes good sense. Otherwise I've spent a tremendous amount of time and money on a hunting trip into an area that I know nothing about and will have a slim chance of success. It's not like I realistically have a chance to take 2-3 trips out there beforehand to scout the area.
Those who must raise their voice to get their point across are generally not intelligent enough to do so in any other way.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,645 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,645 Likes: 1 |
score means didlysquat to me on a whitetail. Sure seems to given the amount of thinking you're giving to how other folks go about filling a tag. Laffin'....Yep. Convenient avatar switch by the OP too.
WWP53D
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,576
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,576 |
score means didlysquat to me on a whitetail. Sure seems to given the amount of thinking you're giving to how other folks go about filling a tag. Laffin'....Yep. Convenient avatar switch by the OP too. just changed it to my last buck. if score mattered i would not have shot him. he wouldn't score good at all.just an old mature buck that i had a blast hunting.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555 |
just changed it to my last buck. if score mattered i would not have shot him. he wouldn't score good at all.just an old mature buck that i had a blast hunting.
You're long-arming the picture an awful lot for a guy who doesn't care about score/size. Kinda looks like this:
Last edited by horse1; 12/09/14.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
You're uglier than I remember...
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 95
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 95 |
I wouldn't pay to kill a whitetail. I would however happily pay to experience hunting them in a new area, with new methods and a guide when required. the amount I pay to hunt whitetails will vary from year to year with most years only paying the cost of a license and whatever fuel I burn getting to my local hunting spots, some years I'll take a week or more off work and travel 100 kilometers to my families camp and hunt the old abandoned farmsteads and crown land (public land in american terms, although in reality its been given to the timber companies for a fraction of its value to do with as they please), success is lower than hunting closer to home but the hunting pressure is a little lower because there is more land to go around and the few deer I have seen tended to be less pressured. Hell in the next few years as family and work may change my situation I'll probably travel to Alberta and pursue whitetails there, all be it for considerably cheaper than most, hunting with family and friends who live there so it will only cost me my travel, tags, a decent bottle of scotch or 4 and possibly having to wear an Edmonton Oilers jersey for all family events I could tolerate that. I dream of hunting Anticosti not because of monster bucks, but because it has terrain very similar to my home hunting areas but with a considerably healthier deer population. For me it would be like taking a time machine back to the late 70's and early 80's before I was born and the timber industry and farming changes completely altered the deer population of my province. For all the comments of not wanting to have your hand held, I don't think having a guide is any different than having an experienced and familiar with the area hunting partner, do you insist on not talking to hunting buddies and never try to discuss your plans with more experienced hunters? I'm willing to bet that most of us do just that, after all if we didn't this forum wouldn't exist.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,930
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,930 |
Yes. I'd love to hunt midwest whitetails.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,555 |
You're uglier than I remember... I'll try to get the aperture opened up wider next time so as to blur that out for you. (grin)
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
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