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Wow, you missed it completely, but I see it's since been covered.

If you don't, why does God standby and watch His children get raped, murdered, butchered, etc etc.

I see you say something along the lines that we don't get to define God, but apparently you do

No, I get it. You believe in something despite all evidence to the contrary, simply because you want to believe and that belief makes you feel better.

That's it, and that's all. Honestly, that's all it has to be and has to do. It still doesn't change the facts of incongruous teachings and beliefs, nor the illogical premises that have to exist for such faith to continue.

Whether one believes in a fiction or not is their own business and their own right. That it is still a fiction remains, but so long as it makes them feel better that's all that's required.

This is to 4ager and Steelhead. You both seem to be smart guys, and I respect your doubting as well as the questions you pose. However, in these posts you seem to assume reach that you do not possess. You are not nearly insightful enough to have a clue about how I feel, what makes me "feel better" or what I think I can do. It truly seems most arrogant for one to assume that he has such capacity. If you are merely guessing, that is another matter.

I try to avoid any such assumptions about the beliefs or feelings of others - not my realm, expertise or preogative. Neither can you define "fiction' as it pertains to another and his/her faith. It is beyond you - and beyond me. If you think you are that intellectually powerful, flail away.

There is no "apparent" about it. Kindly re-read what I said earlier - for comprehension - let this sink in. I cannot define God and do not suppose that ever I will. One can read the signs and evidence in His Word and elsewhere, do his best to be led by the Holy Spirit, and do his best to understand - but never can assume to define God. All Godly things are not understandable or fathomable by humans.

Likewise, one person's faith cannot be defined or fully understood by another, nor can the effects of such faith. You can surmise, mock and decry - but you cannot define.

Noted above are some of the "tools" mentioned earlier.

One's inability to understand, or accept, that the bad human actions and events you mention do occur within the scope of the free-will given by God may be a problem for you - and possibly for me. However, such inability does not reflect upon or negate anything about God. It simply is a human shortcoming, like many others.

I don't get it

"Well, when "the big picture" ....... .

Any halfway intelligent man is going to go thru the same mental exercise regarding God. Some of us don't stop there, and some do.

The logical explanation - at least it satisfies me - is that there is a "bigger picture" which contains the "big picture".

If we could see the bigger picture, we would see how everything fits together. Atrocities and acts of mercy. Good men and evil men.

Since we operate in the "big picture" we are supposed to act as if this is all there is and we must confront evil and be sickened by atrocities.

But blaming God is tempting. I just never had the balls for it.

Blame Adam.

That may well all be as it may and not for me to settle.

What I do know is this:

Sitting down at a restaurant is what I do, when I am hungry. Any information passed onto the table I am allowed to occupy other than the menue is not welcome.

And this is in no way a reflection of my believe.

CCCC, I see that you've been practicing your apologetic else where, and learning new tricks. Claiming that God cannot be defined is one of those tricks, because once he's defined, he's easy to disprove. This is just one more of those infinite regressions of apologetic. It used to be that God(s) was (were) on the mountains, then in the clouds, then in space, now God is outside space and time....and cannot even be defined. The apologist have been moving the goal posts for thousands of years, and now you are running out of room to move them.

So, what is your evidence for this undefinable being that exists outside of space and time?

If you cannot even define what it is, or where it is, how can you offer any evidence for it's existence?

So � anything that the human mind can neither define nor locate can not exist � is that what you conclude?



Texas singer Don Cherry told of a Texas cowboy watching a bull-fight � and finally losing patience with the matador �

"Hey, Seen-yorr! If you don't hold that cotton-pickin' sack still, you ain't nevva gonna git 'im in it!"

Read again, but more closely this time.

I am seeing the depravity of man. Manifested in evil acts.

Also, I would not agree that evil is simply "the absence of God."

Anybody else seeing "depravity" here?

TF

Sniper, I wish I were young enough to learn some new tricks, and sure am not practicing anything at all - except a musical instrument or two. You are DEAD WRONG - I offer no apology for anything connected with God - would not even try. Therefore, no infinite regression involved. That must be a mind game for you.

Maybe you thought God was "in the mountains", "in the clouds", "in space" - whatever floats your boat - but I have never even suggested a specific location. I believe He is everywhere - wherever He wishes to be. Describe that location for me, eh? How does one "run out" of everywhere? Infinity is mysterious.

You are a fool if you think I ever have offered any evidence for God's existence, and you are a liar if you say that I have. God defines Himself and provides His evidence through His relationships with those who choose to join with Him. It may hurt you in a critical place to realize that God cannot be defined by humans - even a very special human like you. It may hurt even more that your inability to define Him - to put Him in your special box - has zero to do with His existence. He will be the Almighty regardless of your abilities.

If you would like some relief (or even diversion) from trying to tell Christians what they should, or can, or cannot, or must do and what/how they should be able to believe - and some relief from struggling to disprove Something that cannot be disproven - and some relief from trying to define the indefineable - try looking into and understanding the dynamics of faith.

These God, evolution, creation, threads solve nothing and change no minds on the subject.


Yet they continually get posted. Gotta wonder if it's just to piss off the other side.

eta: not directed towards any individual.

Nope, it doesn't work that way. An "incantation" is just words. Words are not evidence of a changed life. Not evidence of being in the Master's hand.

See Matthew 7:23 for further insight.

TF

Ready,



I guess I didn't make it clear. She sat down at the next table for a continuation of the conversation from when she approached us.

That He allows, encourages, and creates. Either God is in everything and is everywhere at all times, and this is there in that and doing that, or He is not everywhere, in all things, all knowing and all doing. There are only two options.

ironbender,



If you read all these threads you would realize your post is in error. My mind has been changed by others.

Read it. All I have to do is say I accept Jesus and my Lord and Savior and beg forgiveness for my sins. Done.

I think you are correct in your view that such threads solve nothing. Can't be so certain that no minds are changed. Have never started such a thread and can't speak to the intent of those who do - but seems like some pissedoffedness does happen.

Not trying to piss anyone off. Frankly, I think they get posted because the ones posting aren't nearly as secure in their own beliefs as they'd like everyone else to think that they are.