Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns early Model 29 loads

I have an early Model 29 with recessed chambers and pinned barrel. I've read that these are weaker than later models. I mostly shoot cast Keith 240 grain with GC and 225 grain without GC. I'd like loads for deer hunting with the 240 grain bullet that are low enough pressure that I could shoot this 29 for many years. Recommendations on loads? (I have a Super Black Hawk so I don't desire to get recommendations on getting a different revolver, please)
Thanks

I would use 10 gr/Unique with the 240 bullet.

Use H-110/296 this powder is slow enough to produce a uniform pressure peak and not beat the gun up in the process of producing good velocity. Pushing the bullets to 1300 FPS will be fine as well. I also have a couple of those vintage M-29s and love them.

That's my favorite mid-range load. I use 24.0 ww296 and a 240 jhp when I really want to make noise, but usually shoot the Unique load so as not to stress the pistol.

Unique is a fast burning powder for the 44 mag and thusly produces less velocity, but not nessecarily less pressure than H-110/296 as these pressure test results clearly illustrates.


Look for the pressure data.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

260 cast Unique 10.5 1050 24,800 Unique 12 1199 30,000

260 cast H-110 25.5 1364 24,800 H-110 27 1459 30,600


Notice despite the difference in speed the Unique and H-110/296 is very close in developing the same pressure.

Probably not so much a pressure issue as an acceleration under recoil issue. It is the lock work that gets beat up in these. My M29 needed some minor work after 2500 rounds of 9.5gr/240 unique loads, so there may be merit to a slower burning powder.

Pressure peak is much faster with the faster powder and thusly is harder on the revolver, but not the shooter due to less recoil from less velocity. John Linebaugh told me earlier this week that for 30 years he has shot a 30,000 psi load out of a colt single action army without a problem using H-110/296, but if another faster powder was used at this pressure level it would beat the gun up badly

Interesting, the same would hold true for H4227 then? I've got plenty of that, and a pre-29 to load for, but no H110.

You are correct.

Spot on!

That makes zero sense.

Unless you are exceeding the material strength of the metal, or exceeding the materials speed of mechanical propagation, pressure is pressure.

What beats up most revolvers is recoil -which has a weak relationship to pressure.

Again you are wrong and can't connect the dots, call John Linebaugh and tell him he is wrong as well. I have learned a lot from him over the years and have experience has taught me that he is correct.

Google him and his number is you will find.

18.5 grs. 2400 and a 250gr. bullet, that's what I use.

H110/296, Lil Gun, AA1680 will produce higher velocities with less pressure, but they also produce more blast and can get nasty on the field ears; reducing them too far may give unpleasant results on the ignition side, not to mention they usually shoot best around full throttle anyway.

Other powders like Longshot and BlueDot work well at the 20-25,000 psi level with the same pleasant shootability as Unique, but with less pressure and more speed.

What beats up Smiths is inertia...the high pressure along with it doesn't help.

Powders burn by relative quickness, too.

A charge of Bullseye is consumed a lot quicker than H110 when making a bullet leave the case.

How early? WE need pics

If it's one of the four screw models, or an original 5 inch model, I'd be gentle with it

And honestly, a 270 WFN at 1100 fps is going to shoot clean through lots of critters

Elmer, I think, got along pretty well with the older model 29's. My thoughts are that the problems with the earlier models was 1) when guys started using them in the sillouette (sp) game and were shooting thousands of rounds of heavy loads thru the guns, and 2) when the use of heavier 300 gr. and up bullets at full strength came in vogue. The changes made by Smith in the late 80's and early 90's were done to address those issues. I personally shoot loads of 250 gr. cast bullets at about 1000 fps using the faster burning powders (Unique, Universal, etc.) simply because at my time in life I don't enjoy the recoil and blast as much as I used to, not because I'm concerned about the strength of the firearm. Shoot what you want and enjoy.

I've got an M29 that I bought in 1967, back when they were pinned, and recessed and very hard to find. It's had at least 10,000 rds. through it, over 80% of which were full power loads shot double action. By full power, I mean Elmer Keith's load of 22 grs. of the older version of 2400 under one of his 250 gr. cast SWC's.
After passing those 10,000 rds., I sent it to S&W just to make sure it was OK. It seemed fine to me.
They replaced the clynder bolt, the little round thing that pops up from the bottom of the frame to hold the clynder in place. They also replaced the rear sight leaf. It had lost it's white outline from being carried alot.
Those guns were made with hardend steels. They had extra design features like recessed chambers to give the cartriages more support. They were finely fitted as well.
Factory ammo was loaded, and still is loaded, at either 40,000 cup, or 36,000 psi pressure levels with soft swagged, 240 gr. bullets. BTW, the two cited levels are from the same ammo. Just different ways of measuring it.
The troubles of the M29's came about when the powder happy sorts decided "a couple of grains" more powder was OK because they "couldn't see any pressure signs." This didn't do much, if anyhting, to the original design, and quality guns, but it did after the company changed hands a time or two and the design was changed. I suspect the quality control was also less than what it had been as well.
Stay with the published loading data and all will be well. That includes the tested bullets BTW. E

I agree with the inertia part. But I would like to point out the peak pressure with Bullseye usually occurs before the bullet has even moved. It is true that higher sustained pressure will accelerate a bullet faster - hence greater recoil speed (sharpness).

Basically I had to poke at JWP and some of the other forum-tards who come up with some of the craziest forum-physics.

Ever have a 29 double on you or have the cylinder unlock from recoil? Good times...(sarcasm)

Don't get the mainspring too light...

I'm not trying to keep an argument going, but........Jwp, I understand what you are saying about pressure from faster burning powders. But pressure is outward in all directions within the cylinder/brass, is it not? I don't explain very well, so bear with me. Pressure and it's destructive power would be related to the strength of the mechanism (cylinder/brass) containing the pressure. Recoil however delivers a violent shock wave as the parts (cylinder, crane, forcing cone, etc. ) slam into each other. The slower powders (H110) deliver more velocity at the same pressure as the faster burning powder (Unique) thus more recoil. Should this not cause faster wear and tear on the revolver with the slower burning powder?