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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Just last week I was testing seating depth changes in mild target loads in a .308 and got these velocities - these are averages of 5 shots each over an Oehler Model 35. Hornady 150 grain SP 40.0 IMR4895 .030" off the lands - 2401 fps .050" off the lands - 2383 fps 41.0 IMR4895 .030" - 2518 fps .050" - 2490 fps Sierra 150 Spitzer 41.0 IMR4895 .030" - 2483 fps .050" - 2483 fps The first two show a small decrease in avg. velocity indicating a small decrease in avg. pressure. The Sierra results are interesting in that the average velocity was exactly the same which, besides being an interesting coincidence, could indicate all kinds of things - seating depth didn't make much difference with that bullet or perhaps one shot in the second string was way higher than the mean and skewed the average upwards. That's why reloading can turn your hair grey or occupy one's interest for a lifetime - trying to figure out why these things do what they do. 
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Try load 3 .005 off the lands it I am sure will make a difference
Last edited by jwp475; 12/21/14.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Something is being missed here.
If shortening the load does not decrease pressure, then why does Weatherby artificially do this by including a free-bored section?
Also, Why is there continued discussion on handloaders having their 7mm Magnums long throated to seat longer bullet out level with the case neck?
The answer is simply to reduce pressures so more powder can be used to increase velocities over a standard OAL spec.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Mule Deer talked about that in a prior post here. In a handgun round decreasing OAL decreases the combustion chamber (powder space) significantly and does indeed increase pressure.
But in a rifle decreasing OAL allows the bullet to build up more momentum before it hits the rifling so the pressure doesn't build as high - up to a point, and I think MD mentioned something like a 1/2" decrease in OAL as a good ballpark.
The Hornady manual has a good discussion of how seating depth affects pressure, pages 24-27 in the current 9th edition but previous editions have the same discussion and pictures going back as far as I've owned one. I read all of that. All I'm saying is that talk of COL not mattering with the same powder and charge should include the 1/2" - or whatever it is - disclaimer. I'm guessing that 1/2" applies to all rifle cartridges and powder burn rates....but it probably doesn't. That is all.
Last edited by 257heaven; 12/21/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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deleted
Last edited by 257heaven; 12/21/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Deleted
Last edited by 257heaven; 12/21/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Deleted.
Last edited by 257heaven; 12/21/14.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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John,
It's pretty simple - advocating increaseing COAL on a pressure load w/o first determing MAX COAL is stupid, unsafe and reckless. 14+ paragraphs in one post and you address all kinds of straw men, bit not the probelem with your first post in this thread - which is the ONLY thing I took issue with.
I know you were wrong, you know you were wrong, everybody that understands reloading knows you were wrong. Please, continue to swell up and blame me for your own stupidity and the inability to climb out of the monster hole you've dug in your own credibility.
One more thing - You were the internet tough guy that was making it clear " I wouldn't have the balls to say that to your face", not me...
David David, I started writing in 1985 and have long lost count of how many articles have been published after learning from Benchrest shooters and through handloading experience and testing and reviewing rifles and handloading components. It has been an honor to be be a guest speaker at many hunting clubs and even a professional writers club, SCI events, Buckmasters, Dearstalker clubs and even as a guest of the Colorado DOW Master Instructors in Aspen where my work has been appreciated. I have probably had more criticism from you in this one thread than everyone combined over all those years. If you don't like what I write, that's fine with me as I am absolutely done with you and won't bother responding again. Merry Christmas to your and your family. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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John,
If that's the case then you must have literally never received any criticism ever, because I only criticized one thing. You were wrong, you know it, and you're not man enough to correct it. Instead you would rather create a bunch of straw man arguments and lure me into a discussion of "your" method for detemining bullet seating depth.
It's really sad that you would prefer to see some inexperienced reloader damage their rifle, get a face full of hot gases or worse because your foolish pride prevents your from manning up and admitting your mistake.
You're done with me now for the second time? Will theree be a third? Still waiting on that pm.
Regards,
David
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The forum is running true. Anything past the first page is worthless or a pi$$ing contest.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The forum is running true. Anything past the first page is worthless or a pi$$ing contest. I deleted all of mine. Or most of it. I'm beyond caring.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I use the Stoney point tools.
Seems to work for me.
Me
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Actually, I think Aussie explained himself just fine to start with, and anyone with a brain got the idea. He has also answered any remaining ambiguities in a gentlemanly manner.
Canazes is just making an *** out of himself, trying to generate some street cred, I guess.
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Actually, I think Aussie explained himself just fine to start with, and anyone with a brain got the idea. He has also answered any remaining ambiguities in a gentlemanly manner.
Canazes is just making an *** out of himself, trying to generate some street cred, I guess. DD The OP's question was on how to determine MAX COAL, not how to determine proper bullet seating depth. John never recanted his opening statement. He said he doesn't determine MAX COAL, he never has, he has no need. There is no ambiguity there. I'm not sure what "street cred" you think I'm building or what exactly I would do with it if I had it, but that most certainly wasn't my point - I stated quite clearly what the issue was, over and over. John, refused to directly address it - because he knows he's wrong. GFY David
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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The forum is running true. Anything past the first page is worthless or a pi$$ing contest. There is about one good post per page, sure is a lot of wading to find it though.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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How do you go about determining the max COL and what COL you actually use for a given bullet and rifle? Thanks. Stoney Point, can measure several different bullets quickly and accurately. Then, start close to the lands and work my way back until most accurate load is found. If bolt action, I load to mag length that allows smooth follow up shots. Of course, I never need a follow up shot.  Tools are good.
All American
All the time
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Campfire Tracker
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I won't read the entire thread, but:
seat to the lands or mag length, whichever is less.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Amazingly worthless information given to the OP in this 12 page POS.
No one tells him how he can do it with tools he already has; a cleaning rod and rod stops.
Pitiful and pathetic!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Campfire Outfitter
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All American
All the time
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Amazingly worthless information given to the OP in this 12 page POS.
No one tells him how he can do it with tools he already has; a cleaning rod and rod stops.
Pitiful and pathetic! Ya....we'll....GFY! Oh, wait a minute....am I in the right thread? OK....I am....GFY! Oh, and I'd have to agree with you to that the thread turned out pathetic though I have to say I feel the cleaning rod method is more of an educated long way around from a much more practical method such as Mule Deer recommended. Shod 
Last edited by Shodd; 12/22/14.
The 6.5 Swede, Before Gay Was Ok
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