Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Article Thoughts "Savage Package Rifles" by R Mann in Am Rifleman Jan 15

Article link:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/mobile/article.php?id=38895
Gents,
For this of you who have read the article, I'd like to hear your thoughts about the accuracy charts displayed for the three Savage Rifles in 308 as shown in the article.
It seems I can't find an internet post anywhere by an internet commando who's Savage shoots anything less than 1/2" groups at 200 yards with Aussie Surplus.(yea that's meant to be sarcastic).
However using three good loads, good testing methods and printing real data Mr Mann reports that the three rifles he tested shot between 1.11 smallest and 3.25" largest groups.

I ask as I keep thinking about getting a similar rifle in 223 or 204-

Please share your thoughts specifically on the accuracy of these guns real world numbers vs the internet lore. According to what I've read I would be sorely disappointed with these results should I buy a new savage.

Here's one, with my son's LH Savage Axis... just trying to get the scope on paper.

This is a good post and is one to compare with the Kimber Montana problem that is mentioned below.
A rifle that would cost you 3 times as much.

That one will not hit the broad side of a barn, well not that
bad but not very accurate.

Here's another sight-in target, with a Stevens 200, with a Savage factory 204 barrel screwed on, one shot, adjust scope, five shots into sub half MOA. I have six Savage bolt actions that will all go sub half MOA with my handloads.

I can't comment on these specific rifles, not having shot them. But the average group figures reported in the article were produced from five consecutive, five shot groups. That's a much tougher standard than what most people use when reporting what their rifle will do with a particular load.

I give the American Rifleman credit for giving us honest results. Five, 5-shot groups is a tough standard, and the testers don't handpick the rifles, factory loads, or work up pet loads for that rifle. The are also usually not tweaking anything on the rifle to help it out, either.

I have tested some factory rifles with a dozen factory loads and had results vary from sub-moa with the best load to 2" or even 3" with the worst load, using 5-shot groups.

Many tests in other magazines cater to, and kiss up to their advertisers. Frequently, I believe, we hear about the best couple of groups out of a dozen and nothing about the rest.

I commend the American Rifleman staff for their honest reporting in cases like this.

I would say he is correct in his results. The interesting thing is the poor performance of the nosler 165 gr partition across all of the rifles. If you eliminate the nosler load the avg of the two remaining loads is quite good for the number of groups fired. I am surprised by the fact that all three of the rifles did not like the nosler loading.

Don't forget, in cyberspace (or sitting around in the general store) your group size can be whatever you want it to be.

I've never shot a five shot group at a large game animal, so it seems a bit odd as a measure of accuracy.

Five shots each from a cold bore group? Yes.

Five five shot groups? Who cares!?

Yes the 5 consecutive 5-shot groups, with no tuning the gun or ammo, is a tough standard.

Maybe the more fair question would be, "how well would other factory rifles do under the same test?"

Even with the worst 3.5" 100yd group these guns qualify for out-of-the-box HUNTING accuracy. How many of our 30-30's will pass this test?

Read the article, and liked it. One of the great things about the Rifleman is that the test has been consistent forever. I see it as a reasonable indicator of what can be expected for the average guy...both for accuracy and reliability.
I also admire the fact that they are $400, $500, and $600 retail price tags, with scopes, and ready to hunt.
Loonies will never grasp that some view a rifle as just a tool to get a job done.
I have the good fortune to hunt a bunch of dairy farms. Many of these guy own a single centerfire rifle, often a pump Remington, that is used, successfully, for most of their hunting career. I wish I were that smart.

Actually, five 5-shot groups is a better indicator of a rifle's real accuracy level than the almost fictional level of accuracy shown by 3-shot groups--especially the typical Internet hand-picked 3-shot groups.

Whether or not we shoot 5-shot groups on big game animals is irrelevant. Any accuracy test should reveal what we can actually expect from a rifle, and where we can expect ONE shot to land in the field.

Guilty, as charged!

There is more than a grain of truth to this. There are 10 members on our lease, and they all razz me about hunting with exotic cartridges: 7x57 and .260 Rem. Before I joined the lease, none of them had ever heard of either of these cartridges before. But with their .243s .30-30s, .30-06s, .308s, and .270s - most of the guys only owning one - they keep their freezers filled year after year after year. I would expect they are more representative of the average U.S. deer camp than is represented by the 'fire membership. As a matter of fact, I doubt these fellows would have any interest at all in 99% of what is discussed in these forums. That's not meant to be a reflection on either the 'fire membership or the fellows at the deer camp. It's just the difference in where everyone's interests lie.

It's strange that none of the rifles liked the Nosler Partition load. But the rest of the groups I don't call bad at all for an average of five five shot groups.

THIS !!

Fifteen shots tell me what I need to know. Three groups of 5 shots tells me more about how well the rifle shoots when hot than how well it will shoot in the field. Five groups of 3 shots is I think a better indicator of a hunting rifles potential. I won't be shooting 5 at anything other than paper anyway.

I've owned several Savage's, and shot several more. I've never shot one with poor accuracy. Never shot one any more accurate than a Winchester, Remington or Ruger either. And if you compare apples to apples, as in walnut stocked rifles to walnut stocked rifles or SS vs SS the Savages aren't any cheaper.

It is entirely clear that some folks on this post do not understand the purpose of bench resting a rifle nor do they understand anything about statistics.

I shoot at most of my deer only once, so I shoot one shot groups. Furthermore, fifteen one shot groups tells me more than five three shot groups or three five shot groups or one fifteen shot group. For some reason I tend to shoot best with my .22's (.22 inch groups every time) followed by my .243 and finally my .30 caliber guns.

3 3shot groups works for me in a big game setup.