Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Question For PA Deer Hunters???

I agree about the ohio laws. When it is so hard to control your own property the simplest way is to ban everyone. That is what we have had to do. Only 6 people are allowed to hunt our property. For forty years we allowed anyone who asked to hunt. When we found people there, if they were respectful, we left them hunt even though they had not ask. Only out of state folks were told to leave. Because they do bring more later. It has always surprised me how nasty some become when they are caught doing something wrong. That does not help them. I have trespassed, have been caught and did not get nasty or go back. That was in the past and is not how I operate anymore.

One cold day I was Grouse hunting the last day of the season and got off of land I had permission to hunt. I knew it, but I was on the edge of both properties. Grouse were high and I wasn't shooting all that well and I got into a bunch.

All of a sudden this guy started yelling at me to stay where I was at. He came off the hill and I recognized him as an individual I had met earlier in the year Grouse hunting on a GL.

I had a Springer and he had a Setter. We had a pleasant conversation about Grouse hunting and Dogs and went our separate ways. He didn't remember me.

He was obviously worked up and asked if I had permission. I said I knew I was off where I could hunt, but was really into the Grouse and needed one more for my limit, but wasn't doing all that well in getting it. Again, again and again he agitatedly asked the same question and I repeatedly calmly gave the same answer and eventually said it is the last day of the season, we have established that I don't have permission, so here is my license and volunteered my phone no. Take down the info you need and contact the authorities. Have them call me and I will pay the fine, but it is cold and I've had enough. On top of that, the last time we met at the GL we had a nice conversation without yelling at each other. That's when the light came on.

He took down the info but quieted down and I walked away. About a week later the phone rang and it was him on the answering machine. Apologized for getting so worked up and said to give him a call about hunting the property. There were a lot of Grouse then and I let it drop.

Its good when cool heads prevail. We had a killing over trespass in the Indiana-Johnstown area a few years ago. It kinda fell under the radar as to how it shook out. The landowner confronted two trespassers and a disagreement broke out. The farmer died and the survivors told that he shot at one and the other shot him. Never heard what the police figured out. It surprises me that it does not happen more often. Landowners have this going on and on till they are ready to explode. Trespassers feel entitled and get mad, all have guns. We had a guy hit a landowner with a rifle and then take the landowners gun. Now I carry a sidearm and we have changed how we approach people. This may help explain my overall negative thoughts toward the GC and deer hunting. I love to hunt but all these things and few deer make it tough.

Back in the early 70s had a good spot for small game hunting shared with an old buddy. We went up there one year, parked where we always had and before we could head out, guy came tearing up the road. Yelled at us to get out. Found out he'd bought the farm from the previous owner since the last season.

No problem, went down the road a piece and I asked that guy for permission to hunt his farm and got it. I often cut across a corner of a field way back in, that I'd used to access some of that farm. Old boy was out in the field above me one year, yelled that I was on his land.

Walked up to talk to him. At some point mentioned the "new" guy down the road that'd denied us access to where we'd hunted for years. Told him we'd asked his neighbor for permission, had been hunting there ever since, just cut across his corner to get where I wanted to be.

Turned out the old boy didn't like the "new" guy down the road either, got along with his neighbor and said since I'd been cutting across his corner for a few years, might as well hunt wherever I wanted to on his place. Put a grin on my mug.

Excuse me, but I have to ruffle some feathers here. It seems like the people posting that there are plenty of deer in PA are all referring to private land when talking about their hunting. I have hunted public land or land open to the public since I got my first deer. Drug a deer 1/2 mile? What, are you in the girlscouts? My favorite hidyhole GLs is a mile of walking right-of-way just to get to the gameLands. I know exactly how far it is because you could drive back until the trestle got too bad in the 70's. 2-3 mile drags are the norm. I use the new GC mapping system and have always used the late season as a scouting time in new areas. Some of these areas are beat into the dirt. There are rubs on trees from years back, but snow tells all. Maybe you should get out of the cornwoods and walk in the real woods before commenting about deer population and other hunter's abilities. Hunters don't want to move to new areas? What horse@#$%. In the early 90's all you saw on Sundays in the fall were guys looking for new places to hunt. I know because I was one of them. You think everybody wants to drive halfway across the state to hunt? The way this thread went to "How to get away with trespassing" pretty much shows me what most of you know about public land hunting.

Neither you nor anyone else is gonna ruffle my feathers.

Never questioned anyone's ability as a hunter, although we all know that some people can hunt and some can't. And yes, there are still plenty of deer in PA.

Not as many as in the era of 1990-2000 when our herd numbers probably peaked, still enough around to kill over 300,000 per year. Are there areas with very few deer now?

Yep, just like there were areas with few deer when herd numbers had peaked. There are now just more areas with fewer deer, according to what I hear in person, read on the internet and in outdoors rags.

As for the private vs public land debate, there is far more private huntable land in PA, than there is public huntable land in PA. So it's no surprise that perhaps more deer are killed on private land, than on public land?

Many of the public lands get hit pretty hard, especially the ones closer to large population centers. Over the past 50+ years I've hunted on private lands where deer were scarce and on public land where deer were scarce.

I primarily hunt on private land where deer are still fairly plentiful. It was not always so there during my lifetime, nor do I demand that it stay that way, nor anticipate complaining if it ever goes downhill again there.

If you're (not you personally, unless it fits) one of the people that mostly moan about the high deer numbers we had fifteen years ago in many places, don't have them now and demand a return to those days, too bad.

There actually were too many deer in PA by 2000, which is why HR came about. Not too many everywhere, but too many in enough places that it was time to address it.

Sorry if that ruffles your feathers.

Dube, don't know where you are or how long you have hunted. But in my area, Bedford and Somerset counties, the peak was before the 90's. Our peak was probably late 60's through early 80's. Im not old enough to be certain when it began but early eighties you could slowly see the decline. It was not a die off it was an increase of doe license. Early eighties Bedford county would be allocated 6-8k doe licenses. By the mid eighties we were getting 14k plus. By 90 they were allowing a bonus tag. There is no way of knowing how that should have affected the herd because having a tag to hunt on and an old tag to reuse allowed a lot of outlawing. That was the real start of our decline here. When Alt started I had some hope, and thought a herd reduction might work as promised. But now it seems they are addicted to tag money and are doubling down on herd reduction. Out local herd seems to produce more nice bucks and that is good. However some would rather be able to get a small buck or a doe every year. A bigger buck is nice but i hunt to get a deer and to get meat. I have never screwed a horn to a board and would never put a photo in the paper. The only pictures of my animals have been taken at the insistence of others. Nothing against others taking photos, I like to see some of them. It just is not how I was raised.

Plummer, relax.

First off, no one advocated how to get away with trespassing. Would be interesting if you can point that out. We did discuss the laws re trespassing. I personally discovered that I didn't know what I thought I knew. Always interesting to learn something new.

You think you are the only one that has had a long drag? Seriously doubt that to be the case.

Hunting where the Deer are and not wanting to drive to get there? I hunted every day but one this year and it was 1.5hours each way? Why? Well I thought it would be a good idea to hunt an area that had enough Deer to make it worth while taking two weeks vacation off. I could have hunted closer to home, but it would have been too confining and I wouldn't have enjoy it all that much. On top of that, I passed on a legal Buck the last day. Small fellow not even close to average. Perhaps next year.

I've driven to Wisconsin and Maine for Grouse. Flew to South Dakota for Pheasant. Had a great time but didn't take the Dog, so it wasn't the best. Plan on driving there next year. Why? That is what it is going to take to make the trip the best I hope it can be. Would I drive half way across the State to hunt? Have done so for Grouse. Have stayed in camps and motels. Never regretted a minute of it. Why? The hunting was often better than good. Would I do it for good Deer hunting? In a heartbeat.

Again to repeat myself. I discovered a long time ago that hunting where they are is better than the reverse.

I also have no aversion to hunting the cornwoods. Matter of fact there was corn pretty close to where I shot a Doe this year on my Cousins place. Could have shot a bunch on the 1000 acres I mainly hunted on. Then again there was corn within a mile of there in all four directions. How close is too close to insinuate it wasn't the real deal.

We can disagree on a lot of things, but to say any advocated "How to get away with trespassing" is a stretch.

Relax Dude and smooth down those feathers, it is a beeeeeg world. You do it your way and some of us will do it ours. It's all good, but if I can make a suggestion; Hunt where they are.

This whole no Deer thing is certainly true in some places. What always makes me wonder is why someone would hunt where there are few, then willing kill one and make them fewer and then bitch about there not being enough.

Then again the GC only sold the tags. We are the ones who shot them and then shot them and then....until they were hard to find. Certainly wasn't our fault.

And this is why I noted that different parts of PA have had good numbers at various times and may now have gone in the other direction?

The point could even be made (and perhaps should be made) that one part of a county might've had good numbers over a period of time, yet 15 miles in another direction, different ballgame?

These are the counties I've hunted in since the early 60s:

Dauphin, Cumberland, Perry, Juniata, Lebanon, Union, Potter, Tioga and maybe one or two border areas I've forgotten where mighta slid over into another county? Most of those areas (or at least the parts that I hunted in) had very few deer until the late 80s into the 90s.

Where I've primarily hunted, northern Potter and Tioga, had fairly good hunting from the mid 80s on. Numbers pretty much peaked by the late90s where I normally hunt and at least in the area of my camp, are coming back fairly well.

I stand by the assertion that there was never a time when deer were evenly spread across PA and never will be such a time. Although there are now deer where they were once a rarity.

A given that there are now far more deer in many of the southern counties that just weren't there 20 years ago. Another reason why some guys with northern tier camps, now may hunt more at home?

First Deer that I knew of that was shot in Westmoreland was around 1965. People didn't believe he got one there. With a long bow no less.

Us kids roamed those woods with .22lr's back then and I can't ever remember seeing a Deer. Now they are in almost every ones back yard. Matter of fact I will go thru quite a few bushels of apples and bags of corn this year feeding them. At least two Does have Fawns every year in a small group of trees and on the bank of my driveway. Been that way since I moved here in 86.

Seems like the Deer have learned to adapt more so than a certain portion of hunters. Funny how that works.

It is a damn same that the biggest concentrations of deer seem to be whee access is so hard to get. Many urban areas are overrun. Pittsburgh area always seemed to be a bad area for that. So many steep places that cant be developed make great habitat.

I started hunting in '73 on the family farm south of DuBois. A buddy hunted east of DuBois near the resevoir. It wasn't uncommon for him to see nearly 100 deer in a day while I figured it was a good day to see 20. My cousins told me they only started hunting the farm area in '66, before that they went to the 'mountains' where there were more deer. We peaked in the early 90's, dropped down, and are back to about where we were at the peak.

Almost all my hunting has been and still is done on private ground that is open to the public or on Gamelands.

Statewide, I wonder if most of the folks complaining about few deer started hunting during the era of peak numbers and thought that was the norm and the way it should be?

Dale

By golly, you just might be onto something there!

Be interesting to see what sort of age groups are the most upset and expressing opinions about few deer? My guess:

Those who had hunted for quite a few years seeing few deer, then began to see far more as numbers increased through the late 90s. And those who started hunting when higher numbers were the norm.

I hunted the real peak of seeing a hundred a day in the mountain counties during the 60's. Almost always 100 Doe. Bucks were mostly spikes and little forkies. They died like flies when a bad winter came along. I'll take today over that any time.

I spent a full week in 1970 hunting spring gobblers in Medix Run -Elk and Clearfield counties. We didn't see one deer in the whole week. Apparently the winter of 69-70 was a very bad one up there. By the fall of 73 the same area was over run with deer.

Nature's plan. One or two good reproductive seasons with decent cover/food in place and an area's deer numbers can nearly double.

Enough over winter browse to support healthy does means better fawn production, better chance of twin fawns. Enough good cover to allow more fawns to elude predators, more fawns make it to the point that they're less vulnerable. Result: More deer.

If it progresses to the point that deer numbers become too high, then a lack of food eventually starts another depressive cycle.

When I started hunting deer I lived in Lehigh County, almost on the Bucks County border. The doe tags (One deer a year) never sold out then. It is way more populated now and there is a lot more deer. The problem is there is nowhere to hunt. I could sit on my mother's garage roof and kill a deer with a crossbow. There is something wrong about watching TV through the neighbors window when "Hunting". There is really something wrong with destroying thousands of acres of prime deer hunting land where you can hunt. I am not lily white when it comes to game laws, and I doubt many people are. Since the AR's came in, I have shot one by mistake and know of others that have too. You drag it out and cut it up. I don't intentionally break game laws or "Drift over the edge" of property lines no matter how good it looks over there. I have never had to track a deer on to posted property, but would go to the house first if I had to. One day I found a very narrow right of way into the back of a GLs that went pretty close to the back of a house. I did not have to, but I stopped at the house first and explained that I was just going to walk past with an empty gun. When I lived in lower Lehigh County, I met "A certain portion of hunters" that learned to adapt. Putting on a drive through my back yard and the neighbors back yard with shotguns. A MOWED BACKYARD AND BETWEEN THE HOUSES. That pretty much describes today's hunter learning how to adapt. I guess I should have told them I don't put out bait for deer.

You got it going on and the majority of other license holders suck. Congrats!!!!

Got it.

Sadly, it is true. I have noticed that all the experts on deer population over the whole state seem to hunt only on private land. I work with guys that hunt family land, and we get along good talking deer, but they live around here and they can see what is going on in the heavily wooded areas. The day I have to lease land to hunt is the day I quit.

I went out this afternoon on SGL 50 near Somerset. I didn't see any deer but had no problems finding sign. But since I was poking around in the laurel, mostly taking the gun for a walk and learning the lay of the land, I wasn't really expecting to see any. I saw 3 other vehicles and talked to one hunter. He said he had liked to hunt this gameland instead of 82 near Meyersdale because he thought the deer were getting 'shot out' on his normal area on 82.

So we've got 2 areas about 20 miles apart, one has deer and one apparently doesn't. Both are in the same WMU.

I'm not sure what it means but there it is.

Dale