Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Scope Tracking Tests...

John,

Still waiting on my rifle.....................

Again, "Captain Obvious" how many gunfights do you intend to be in with said scope vs how many long range hunts?

Combat reliability/precision and hunting reliability/precision are not necessary the same.

If you buy a combat precision optic, you're probably overpaying for reliability you'll never, ever use.

Can an optic be "too reliable?"

It can be uneconomical for it's intended use. Why spend money on the ability to take abuse the scope will never see?

All of my hunting optics are hunting optics. My fighting optics (on my AR pattern rifles) are fighting optics.

They are not the same. Even my hunting ARs have fighting optics sighted in for that use.

I don't exactly agree with your take on this. I travel all over the country in the work that I do. I pull a trailer with clothes as well as hunting rifles I have found all but the most reliable scopes change impact points in transit. I do not think one can have too much reliability in an optic. But that is just me, I hate to have a scope tracking issue that requires sending the scope in for repairs.
Buy the very best one can afford and one will receive top results. At least that has been my experience.

Totally agree with this.

Don't agree with "buy the best there is no matter the application or cost."

These guys have all the precision they need and all the reliability they need. All I'm saying is it is a balance or trade-off based on needs.

The most winning short range bench rest shooter of all time is Tony Boyer.
He runs Leupold competition scopes.
Leupold uses Mr. Boyer in there adds.
What they dont tell you is that they give him the scopes.
And of course fix them when they break.

dave

E's statement may have been true years ago, but they've relied too much on their name and reputation for too long and let their competitors catch up and surpass them in features, performance, and value: $ spent. They still make good stuff, but they've had to come to the realization that others are now offering superior products for the same or less $. That fact is evident by all the recent changes in their product lines. They've always been the benchmark for great warranty & customer service, but some of their competitors are now offering warranties and CS just as good. For many years, they touted their "made in US" status, yet the only parts content that is made in Oregon is their scope tubes and mechanical parts of scopes. Everything else, including lenses for their scopes and entire optical product lines outside of riflescopes, is outsourced to Asia. They are really no more American made than Meopta Meopro, Zeiss Conquest, Trijicon Accupont, and others that are assembled in the US from parts made elsewhere.

Technologies borrowed from the VX7 series is used in VX3, at a much lower price. Because of this, the VX3 is now equal to their competitors in the same price range. They've tried repeatedly to compete head to head with the high end Euro scopes with their LPS and VX-7 scopes, and they weren't successful, as evidenced by the new VX6 series coming out that's intended to replace VX7 at a much lower price point (sub- $1K). Comparing feature to feature, their MK4 series tactical / military scopes don't stack up well at all against current offerings from just about everyone else -- Nightforce, S&B, Premier, Hensoldt, Vortex, US Optics, IOR, Kahles, March, and others, all of whom offer better optical performance, better adjustments, better knobs, wider zoom ratios, and better reticles. The MK4 optically lags behind even their own VX3 series. The very fact they are introducing several new tactical scope series is their admission they need to improve.

The upside to all this is Leupold is being forced to up their game, and we all benefit from the stiff competition by having better optics available from not just Leupold, but everyone else.

Thats a pretty astute observation there RifleDude.
In markets that they should by all rights own,there now tail end charlies.
A general rule of thumb is that loopie,these days,is about 7 to 10 years behind,everyone else.

I stopped drinking the coolaid several decades ago.



From Lowlight on Snipers Hide:

So what do you tell the guy who traveled 1200 miles to take a class.. he paid $1500 for the class, plus rental car, hotels, meals, and by the first day it fails... now he goes from what he thought was a solid optics with a stellar reputation to being the guy holding up the class while we run up, get a new scope for him, usually I am pulling one of my NF off to switch it for him. If you want to play the one up and working, the NF I use is heavily used, my S&Bs too, and guess what, of all of them, with more combined rounds than I can count, and only one scope has ever gone back for repair. They well worn and definitely show signs of use.

yes, other brands fail, but not nearly with the frequency as we are seeing with Leupold. it's every week in some cases, and even in the military classes we have Nightforce on the unit rifles next to Leupold... but I don't see the NF failing nearly as much, it's stark the reality of it, especially when you see more than 1 or 2 a week.

It's easily 20 to 1 when you compare the Nightforces on the line with the military units, this last class had 4 Leupolds on the line, 1 failed the first day, the remainders where USO, NF, and S&B... Do we see others fail, sure but not nearly as much.

If you want to start a generic scope failure thread go ahead, but don't be surprised by the results. Facts are what the facts are, in a class of 15 Leupolds on the line I expect and account for anywhere from 2 to 5 scopes to go down, I don't figure that with the same number of NF on the line. Its closer to 1 per every six months of classes, not 1 for every six people.

I wouldn't call that Brand Hatred.
More like a statment of fact.
I personally dont care for 20 to 1 odds that im going to have a problem.

The flip side of that could be.
"You leupold coolaid drinkers have made the optics page about useless"
See,it works both ways.




dave

From 24hour
This is the Shot Show report from Accurate Rifles;


A Contrast in Style � American vs. European Optics-Makers
Among the major optics makers, the difference between American and European marketing styles was painfully obvious. Leupold and Burris had fast-talking, glad-handing salesmen, who, for the most part, knew very little about their product line and even less about optics engineering. By contrast, Zeiss and Schmidt & Bender staffed their booths with real optics engineers with Ph.Ds, many of whom were directly involved in the design of the products on display. At Zeiss we spent nearly an hour talking with Stephan Albrecht, the German engineer in charge of the new 20-75X Diascope spotting scope and the new Diavari Flourite riflescopes. During our conversations with Stephan he actually solicited our feedback, took careful notes and promised to explore some of our suggestions. We also were able to share our field test results directly with Eric Schumacher, President of Carl Zeiss Optical, USA. By contrast, Leupold�s decision makers and top-level engineers were nowhere to be found, and when we voiced our (now annual) plea that Leupold stop building scopes with canted reticles, we were greeted with nothing but blank stares. Leupold�s reps couldn�t comprehend the canted reticle problem, even after I pulled a scope (with 3� canted reticle) off their display rack and showed them.

Butch
Butchlambert

I enjoy a good Fra diavolo on my pasta.......

Any company that sponsors a shooter provides him with the product and services that product if need be.

I trust that's not news to you.

This includes Schmidt and Bender, Nightforces, Khales, Bushnell, Steiner and whoever else you'd like to plug in there.

David,

I have had more Leups fail than not fail. FOR ME reliability is now my number one priority. I am tired of failures. Its that simple.

Talking out of my ass? How so? Please elaborate

Clint

I've seen Jim Carrey do it, and it's not easy.

True! And he gets paid well to do it.

Holy mackeral, you have a Youtube video answer for every question!!!!

That's some funny Chit!

Pun intended! LOL

My bad for saying that. I've retracted the comment.

dave 7mm,

Interesting observations from Frank/Lowlight

Of course, hunting and sniper school are different.