Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire conflict of interest

Been thinking about the argument that comes up on the fire about whether or not the leo would confiscate guns, if confiscation were unconstitutional. One person made the point that tyrants never have trouble finding henchman.

I was thinking about the guys that guard the President. I wonder if they took an oath to protect the President, or the presidency? The difference to me might be a piece in the puzzle of understanding how people are coerced into doing heinous things against humanity. I.E.
muslims taking offense at a cartoon, and feeling justified in murder, in the name of Allah.

There's got to be a systematic breaking down of our most basic respect for human life to allow a man to feed bodies into an oven, or shoot school kids, or cut peoples heads off. Do people at the top have a system in place for getting others to do their dirty work? I have read a little about things like the introduction of symbols, flags, songs, ritual, rites of passage, etc. to create loyalties.

What do you think, is there an instruction manual for tyrannical rule?

Yes.

The U.S. Constitution.

The right to Keep and Bear Arms in the 2nd Amendment protects all the other rights we have.

It's the blueprint for freedom of tyranny.

Secret Service agents take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution; their job duties include defending the President, but not the presidency - this is the job of the courts.

I'm certain that there is NO rule book for the creation of tyrannical rule (but evil leaders do corrupt moral values) and lead weak men to do heinous things. This was true in Nazi Germany, as well as today in the Muslim world.

I'm thinking "Tyranny for Dummies". Google makes this so easy. Why didn't I think that first?!! The one at the top of the list...

In her documentary The End of America, Naomi Wolf outlines the 10 steps through which all nations establish a dictatorship.

Those steps are:

1. Create an internal/external threat that terrorizes the populace. This has already been accomplished with Oklahoma City (false flag) and 9/11 (another false flag).

2. Create secret prisons, with torture. Obama did this nicely with the NDAA (as well as keeping GITMO open even after promising he would close it).

3. Create a paramilitary force. This is the TSA.

4. Single out ordinary citizens as �troublesome persons.� This has been accomplished by Janet Napolitano�s �if you see something, say something� propaganda campaign.

5. Establish surveillance of citizens� groups and ordinary citizens deemed �troublesome.� This is already well under way through surveillance of emails, phone calls, vehicle movements and more.

6. Detain and release citizens without formally charging them with any crime. This has been �legalized� under Obama�s NDAA.

7. Target key individuals who are well known, popular figures. This has already begun and will likely accelerate. Who do you think killed Andrew Breitbart? Congressman Bono?

8. Restrict the press. Already done. The U.S. government, in fact, essentially runs the mainstream media today. White House announcements are simply printed as �fact� with zero journalism and zero fact checking taking place.

9. Redefine dissent as treason. This is already happening with figures like Ted Nugent who was recently �visited� by the Secret Service after his anti-Obama rant. All throughout government speeches today, the criminals at the very top proclaim that anyone who questions government is �anti-American� and might be involved in domestic terrorism. The FBI even warns that people who �stockpile food� might be terrorists! (Even though the government itself stockpiles massive quantities of food, guns, ammunition, communications gear, medical supplies and more�)

10. Subvert the rule of law. Already done. Law has been completely abandoned by the ATF, DEA, FDA, USDA and every other federal agency you can think of. The Attorney General Eric Holder actively plots ways to destroy the Bill of Rights, and the government stages false flag terror attacks to undermine constitutional protections. (Source: Mike Adams the Health Ranger, NaturalNews.com)

I believe the majority of folks worldwide by nature or conditioning are wired to be "led"


some follow their religion blindly, some follow their politics blindly etc. in fact in either tenet they often hold those up that will do whatever instructed as the highest example of "good" or "honorable"

and really just think of it, for most of the USA's existence we've trumpeted ourselves as a "free country"

and yet we sit by passively and let the so called "leaders" (read politician azzholes) pass laws for us and exempt themselves, and enslave our children and grandchildren to ever larger tax burdens via their uncontrolled spending


I have to sort of lol to keep from going insane I guess on the threads about Muslims and how we're not ready to play Cowboy and Muslim yet etc.


sheeeiit as Bristoe would say.

we don't even have the collective balls to demand DC to knock off their bullchit? and yet I'm sposed to believe all the ranting and raving about Muslims that goes on around here.


by and large we're sheeple, even the ones that bluster about what they'd do to Muslims etc.


we see large examples of injustice and the weight of "the state" brought against our fellow citizens and sit idly by.

and truthfully I sincerely feel our US gov't is a greater threat to our liberties and pursuit of happiness than the threat of Muslims (though I don't deny that threat is real)

I include myself in that group of sheeple, I'm living the good life, plenty of money, toys, too much to eat, a handful of residences etc.

and truthfully don't want to rock that boat too hard less the captain (US gov't) decide to throw me overboard

so instead of beatch slappin politicians as I should be doing, I sit back with the rest of us and row and grumble

free country my azz, we're sheeple, we're free to go and do whatever our gov't tells us it's ok to go and do.


all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to sit by and do nothing


me and a bunch of other US citizens are great at sitting by and doing nothing about the problems we face collectively

whether it's the threat of religious fanatics, or gov't fanatics

Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals. I'm sure zero's copy is well worn.

So your comfort contributes to your complacency? Makes sense, but how could you ever go from there to force-feeding ovens with dead bodies or jihad against women and kids?

How 'bout "Mein Kampf" ?

I think you are right. It's human nature for humans to be sheeple and believe in organization. There are very few of us true libertarians and anarchists.

An Instruction Manual for Tyrannical Rule was figured out before recorded history.

Tyrants simply exploit normal human nature, they play on people's fears and fan their hatreds. Although no one admits it, especially not to themselves, humans love to hate. It provides a deep down emotional excitement. People will give up their vices and bad habits long before they give up their hatreds.

As noted in your #1, create an external or internal threat, or better yet both. Band folks together to make them easily led, anyone deviating from this band is a traitor and will be dealt with by others in the band. The Muslims have that saying - me against my brother, my brother and I against our cousins, our family against your family, our village against your village and on up. That idea applies around the world.

Rouse the rabble - "they" are evil, vicious scum, whoever they are. All of your problems are their fault. Substitute any group you want for "your" and "their".

Divide and conquer - even while banding everyone together against the outside foe, keep that band internally weak by inflaming them against each other to lessen their threat to Fearless Leader. It then becomes easy and even patriotic for one half of the group to attack and inform on the other half while the powers that be screw everyone equally. "We have a common foe so we must all get behind and support Fearless Leader, except that half of "us" are evil, stupid, easily led scum and they must be weeded out and destroyed." MSNBC and Fox are among the current avenues of this in America today.


Dictators have recognized and used these methods - very successfully I might add - for thousands of years.

With TRH gone, I guess somebody has to step up for KOTY.

You just took a strong lead.

I'd like to think I'm independent thinking enough that about the only thing that would cause me to force feed dead bodies into ovens would be if someone harmed some of mine.


and I felt that on 9-11, I was one of the lucky ones, I didn't know anyone in the WTC's personally.


still if I'd have had the nuclear codes when I saw the videos of folks dancing in the street, there'd be a few million less Muslims in the world.

both the innocent and those that celebrated the loss of innocent life here

but any group of any sort harms one of mine, well I can't promise you what would happen, but I've a grim thought it wouldn't be pretty

and in my anger I'm apt to not be very discerning about who and how many pay for that transgression.

and truthfully that's a large part of how Hitler got decent folk to do indecent things. Identify an enemy (in this case the Jews) for all the wrong in your groups lives.

if someone harms one of mine, then all the toys, all the money, all the freedoms and luxuries I enjoy don't mean chit anymore.

Hey, I didn't write it! My point was a Google search pulled up lots of material with "Tyranny for Dummies".

Saul Alinsky�s 12 Rules for Radicals

Here is the complete list from Alinsky.

* RULE 1: �Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.� Power is derived from 2 main sources � money and people. �Have-Nots� must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
* RULE 2: �Never go outside the expertise of your people.� It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don�t address the �real� issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
* RULE 3: �Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.� Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
* RULE 4: �Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.� If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity�s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
* RULE 5: �Ridicule is man�s most potent weapon.� There is no defense. It�s irrational. It�s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
* RULE 6: �A good tactic is one your people enjoy.� They�ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They�re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid �un-fun� activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
* RULE 7: �A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.� Don�t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
* RULE 8: �Keep the pressure on. Never let up.� Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
* RULE 9: �The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.� Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists� minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
* RULE 10: �If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.� Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management�s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
* RULE 11: �The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.� Never let the enemy score points because you�re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you�re not part of the solution, you�re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.� Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

*see #12 above

Better watch out! Them paramilitary goons is gonna come and get ya!

Watch yer six Fireball!

Me making fun of you being a retard is part of a government conspiracy to tyrannize the US?

Maybe YOU'RE part of the conspiracy. Because nobody can be as stupid as you and survive to adulthood. And you faking being this dumb entices me to commit #12.

It's entrapment. And entrapment ain't funny.

*see #5 above. Watch out for #7, don't want your material getting old! Way to go with #8. You've got promise Blue!

I get that you're leo blue, but this wasn't personally directed at you so you can relax Rover.

I didn't think it was. The only thing I'm gonna tyrannize today is a half dozen glazed.

But the notion that the TSA is a paramilitary force is absurd, even for you.

I didn't espouse the idea or write the list. I was making the point that a Google search for Tyranny for Dummies turns up lots of stuff. That's it, no more.

I think I'm beginning to understand why there's so many disclaimers on things.