Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles 243 Bluedot loads

Anyone loading Bluedot in their 243 for the dog fields.

I'm not a fan of Blue Dot for reduced velocity, mild kicking rifle loads. For one thing, it is designed as a shotgun powder. That means it can be erratic at higher pressures.
The other is that it doesn't meter well.
But, most of all, I have pretty good data for powders like 4227 and 4198. While 4198 doesn't meter well, 4227 does. Heck, I'd rather run 2400 than Blue Dot for the above reasons. E

I worked up a reduced load for my cousin using 4198. 85 sierra 25.5gr IMR4198 2520fps MOA or better

Seafire is the reduced load guru around here

Im not a big fan of Blue dot powder for reduce loads, it don't fill the case up. Try Trail Boss, with a 85gr Sierra HPBT with 10.5gr of Trail Boss they run down range at 1621fps and the case is full. I love this powder, also use it in my 7-08 and 300 Win mag.

Complaining about Blue Dot not metering decently just illustrates someone having his head so far up his backside he's looking out his belly button hole. After millions upon millions of Green Dot/Red Dot/Blue Dot loads have been put together in what can most generously be described as marginally accurate powder measures you just gotta be plain stupid to make a remark like that.

Blue Dot meters very well out of a decent rifle measure.

14 grains of Blue Dot in a .243 makes a nice reduced load using 55/58 grain bullets and will vaporize small varmints nicely.

You're not going to win Miss Congeniality with a pissy attitude like that

[quote=MILES58]Complaining about Blue Dot not metering decently just illustrates someone having his head so far up his backside he's looking out his belly button hole. After millions upon millions of Green Dot/Red Dot/Blue Dot loads have been put together in what can most generously be described as marginally accurate powder measures you just gotta be plain stupid to make a remark like that.

Blue Dot meters very well out of a decent rifle measure."

Well, I reckon a Redding BR 30 is not much of a powder measure then, because the Blue Dot bridges in it, creating light and them way over max loads! This does not happen on every throw, just now and then. I found this out when I blew a primer. Then went home and threw 100 charges and weighed every charge on my Denver Instruent electronic scale. I am no newbie at this stuff, large flake powders of all kinds bridge in this BR powder measure.

A Lyman 55 would be much better for throwing powder charges of large flake powder.

So, I weigh every charge of blue dot.

In order to allow for the light and heavy charges that my powder measure would throw, I worked up a load in the following way for my custom 223 and Redding BR30.

12.0g of BD with the 40g V max = 3000 fps
14.3g is what I call a max load = 3200 fps
14.6g opens primer pockets, hard to open bolt

I would set my powder measure for 13.5g to allow for the heavy charges around 14.3g.

I did not feel good about this light/heavy load issue, SO I just weigh them on this electronic scale which will weigh the charges faster than I can work the powder measure.

I expect that if your type of powder measure does not "Bridge" you would think that the rest of use are looney. Miles58, what brand of powder measure are you using?

Never knew we had that award on the fire! Azzhole of the month, Yes.

Apparently Blue Dot is now the OCPRL (Official Campfire Powder for Reduced Loads), and nothing else will do.

It does work fine in .223 load, given the right charge, but others will work. But with a few exceptions, for reduced loads in larger cartridges I tend to prefer bulkier, slower-burning powders that fill more of the case, since the position of the powder in the case isn't as critical.

Well, first off, I think I have seen bridging with every measure when throwing charges of extruded powders I have ever used except for the scoops. I just learned early on to double knock then handle when I throw a charge and do it habitually with everything, including ball powders. If that won't clear a bridge in a measure with flake powder which in my experience is vastly less prone to bridging, I'd damn sure not be using that measure with logs (extruded powders). I'd hate to have to carry off all the tens of thousands of shotshells I've loaded with what are relatively primitive powder measures and Hercules flake powders. I used to buy that stuff in 8 and fifteen pound drums.

Second, I have used flake powders in old MECs, Several Herters 72s, a couple Herters 49s, a couple Herters 60s, I don't know how many RCBS Uniflows, a couple Lyman 55s, one Hornady (Pacific) and never had anywhere near the problems that come with logs. in fact, the problems are almost non-existent.

Third, the measures I have seen that were bad with logs were all greatly improved by simply cleaning up the rough casting in the output throat with sandpaper and a drill.

And... lastly, Why in gods name do people take a reduced load powder and then push it to max when there are so many powders much better suited (and in fact designed) to getting what they want out of the round??? Go buy some Hornet bullets to load with Blue Dot. Speer makes a 33, Nosler makes an excellent BT Lead Free 35 that comes undone in chipmunks and of course the 35 grain VMax which is extremely fragile and if it hits anything comes undone. I get decent accuracy out of all of them and the splatter factor is quite satisfactory. They work very well on large raccoons, large porcupines, and even fox and coyotes, although range does become an issue out past 100 or so with the Hornet bullets in a .223, regardless of powder.

Yeah, there is enough space left over in a case to double or maybe even triple charge brass. But, I was trained to charge-a-case-seat-a-bullet and not allow for stupid mistakes. It's not all that hard to do.

Gather I am a culprit involved in that....

It is no secret that I use Blue Dot for reduced load work, but I also use a lot of other powders for the same job... just like to have options open, for times like we are currently dealing with.. lack of powder availability...

Blue Dot is not position sensitive in my work with it... however, as Mr Barsness so eloquent put it, there are other tools for the job that also work...I routinely use SR 4759, both 4198s, RL 7, Rl 10, H 322 are other excellent choices...

and as far as bridging issues, I don't use a powder thrower... all of my hand loading is done with Lee Powder Dippers and an old 505 beam Scale and a trickler...so Blue Dot presents NO Issues for me in loading...

The economy is attractive, as you can increase the number of rounds a pound of powder can yield... in the 223, I can get anywhere from 400 to 700 loads out of a pound of powder...

there are instances that a load of 10 grains, behind a 40 grain bullet is more than what is needed for the job...

cast bullet manuals have tons of info on reduced velocity loads in alot of cartridges.. since none of them push the envelope on SAAMI specs for any cartridge, I consult them frequently...

the idea is that if you are like me, you figure that 80% or more of the varmints you shoot are within 200 yds or less...and 250 yds takes in about 90%....

in varmint cartridges, this stuff works out and fits the bill just fine...

but if you are not an experience reloader, and might end up doing a double charge...( which can have negative results on your firearm, or worse).. then you shouldn't be using this stuff at all...

but loading a rifle cartridge with pistol powder is no different than loading it in a pistol cartridge...you have to know the cases limits, and make sure you don't double charge a case...

so to answer the OP's question...

this ought to help ya out...

This is for academic purposes only, as I can only verify this data is safe in my rifles.. so if you use it, it is at your own risk...

this is dedicated to member "Ruger # 1".. as it was per his request...

Blue Dot Range Report; 243 Winchester

Rifle Used: Winchester Varmint

Barrel Length: 26 inches

Case Used: Remington New

Primer: Fed 210

Max: Capacity: 41.0 grains

Capacity Tested: 8 ( 20%) to 24 grains ( 60%)

1. Bullet : 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip OAL: 67.50 mm

8 grs: 1785 fps 13 grs: 2381 fps 18 grs: 2979 fps
9 grs: 1927 fps 14 grs: 2525 fps 19 grs: 3078 fps
10 grs: 2096 fps 15 grs: 2633 fps 20 grs: 3182 fps
11 grs: 2128 fps 16 grs: 2750 fps 21 grs: 3285 fps
12 grs: 2241 fps 17 grs: 2898 fps 22 grs: 3342 fps

23 grs: 3471 fps 24 grs: 3555 fps

Max Is recommended at 22 grains for reliable brass life.


2. Bullet: 60 grain Sierra Hollow Point OAL; 67.50 mm

8grs: 1675 fps 14grs: 2404 fps 20grs: 3047 fps
9grs: 1779 fps 15grs: 2526 fps 21grs: 3159 fps
10grs: 1869 fps 16grs: 2591 fps 22grs: 3227 fps
11 grs: 2018 fps 17grs: 2718 fps
12grs: 2167 fps 18grs: 2809 fps 23grs: 3286 fps
13 grs: 2305 fps 19grs: 2961 fps

Max is recommended at 22 grains for reliable brass life.

3. Bullet: 75 grain Hornady Hollow Point; OAL: 69.50 mm

8 grs: 1279 fps 13 grs: 2082 fps 18grs: 2604 fps
9grs: 1639 fps 14 grs: 2211 fps 19grs: 2704 fps
10grs: 1755 fps 15grs: 2280 fps 20grs: 2761 fps
11grs: 1882 fps 16grs: 2424 fps 21grs: 2798 fps
12grs: 1989 fps 17grs: 2499 fps 22grs: 2958 fps

75 grain Hornady Continued

23 grs: 3016 fps

Max is recommended at 22 grains for reliable brass life.



3. Bullet: 80 grain Winchester SP: OAL: 69.50 mm

8grs: 1340 fps 14grs: 2159 fps 20grs: 2725 fps
9grs: 1578 fps 15grs: 2265 fps 21grs: 2811 fps
10grs: 1696 fps 16grs: 2298 fps 22grs: 2826 fps
11grs: 1894 fps 17grs: 2462 fps 23grs: 2928 fps
12grs: 1928 fps 18grs: 2552 fps
13grs: 2069 fps 19grs: 2665 fps

Max is recommended at 21 grains for reliable brass life


4. Bullet: 87 grain Hornady SP: OAL: 69.60 mm

8grs: 1057 fps 14grs: 2026 fps 20grs: 2580 fps
9grs: 1434 fps 15grs: 2108 fps 21grs: 2652 fps
10grs: 1558 fps 16grs: 2226 fps 22grs: 2741 fps
11grs: 1683 fps 17grs: 2323 fps 23grs: 2782 fps
12grs: 1806 fps 18grs: 2415 fps
13grs: 1898 fps 19grs: 2487 fps

Max is recommended at 22 grains for reliable brass life.
















5. Bullet: 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip: OAL: 70.50mm

10grs: 1520 fps 15grs: 2080 fps 20grs: 2514 fps
11grs: 1648 fps 16grs: 2159 fps 21grs: 2601 fps
12grs: 1757 fps 17grs: 2250 fps 22grs: 2693 fps
13grs: 1868 fps 18grs: 2295 fps 23grs: 2740 fps
14grs: 1974 fps 19grs: 2420 fps

Max is recommend at 22 grains for reliable brass life.



6. Bullet: 100 grain Hornady SP; OAL: 69.25 mm

11grs: 1575 fps 16grs: 2113 fps 21grs: 2512 fps
12grs: 1724 fps 17grs: 2207 fps 22grs: 2581 fps
13grs: 1828 fps 18grs: 2299 fps
14grs: 1927 fps 19grs: 2365 fps
15grs: 2019 fps 20grs: 2438 fps

Max is recommended at 21 grains for reliable brass life.


7. Bullet: 105 grain Speer SP; OAL: 70.50 mm

10grs: 1270 fps 16grs: 2050 fps 22grs: 2561 fps
11grs: 1521 fps 17grs: 2142 fps
12grs: 1668 fps 18grs: 2239 fps
13grs: 1757 fps 19grs; 2311 fps
14grs: 1837 fps 20grs: 2412 fps
15grs: 1928 fps 21grs: 2483 fps

Max is recommended at 22 grains for reliable brass life.













Conclusions:

1. I consider the 243 much more versatile for a first rifle using these loads than starting a younger shooter out on a 223 or 22/250. It will duplicate the other two rounds, plus has the ability to handle a heavier bullet while still giving mild recoil characteristics.
2. The 243 offers a wide variety of bullets from 55 grain to 105 grain for hunting, and even 107 and 115 grain bullets for long range target shooting and competition.
3. Some bullets that are lighter than other bullets reach max pressure signs at lower powder charges, than a few heavier bullets. This is caused by the load bearing surface of the bullet.

Observations:

1. Contrary to what is usually seen, or expected: In using trees about 8 inches in diameter as backstops, I noticed that in the 2200 to 2800 fps range, most of the varmint bullets were actually penetrating thru the trees completely. Since they are suppose to be fragile for varmint applications, I did not expect to see this. However It was observed in the 55 grain Ballistic Tip, the 60 grain Sierra Hollow Point and the 75 grain Hornady Hollow Point.
2. Therefore it is my PERSONAL conclusion that these bullets might be considered as potential bullets on deer sized game in parts of the country where deer only get to be Antelope sized animals.
3. If this is done, the results are strictly the responsibility of the handloader and shooter. IN the 2200 to 2800 fps range, the rear core is staying intact and not exploding like is advertised a varmint bullet should do. Over this speed the bullet is performing in the explosive manner as designed.
4. I got input from other shooters on an internet forum asking about their experience with this bullet, there were some successes, some failures, and many recommendations for a larger bullet. However, if someone desires to use these varmint style bullets, I advise testing them yourself and analyse your results before deciding to use them.

As always, work your loads up from a point long before listed maximum.

I hope that this information is useful in teaching new and young shooters how to shoot properly and safely. Recoil will be substantially less than typical factory loads. This should assist in accurate shot placement by the shooter.

Cheers and Good shooting
Seafire, May 2004

This data is also applicable for the 6mm Rem.. or close enough for "government work"....and yes, I have tested it in a 6mm Rem also...

Seafire, I can't say thanks enough for your two posts. Miles58 thank you also for your Bluedot post. My O P went from a powder question to a discussion on powder throwers to all sorts of stuff.

I have a good powder inventory and can put anything together I want. As a Bluedot shooter for many years in the 223 there are many reasons to take it to the 243. In the 223 I like it for noise reduction, fantastic accuracy & performance, reduced barrel heat, lots of rounds loaded per Lb, and a big one is reduced shooter fatique on an old man. I hope it does as well in the 243 as it does in the 223. I'll give them both a good work out in Wyoming this June.

Thanks again Seafire!

Don't mention it.. glad to help another forum member out...

KEITH; what cases, primers & barrel length?
WILL (BLUE)

I don't know about nothing else will do...

I DO know that in .223 and .243 it has a surprising range of safe functional use and it has yet to show me inconsistency based on position sensitivity or percent of case volume filled.

My use for reduced loads has never been real great. I use them for varmint control around deer camp mainly now and in the past around the farm. Mainly keeping chipmunks and red squirrels out of things. I tend to like very fragile bullets moving fast enough that when they hit anything they come undone completely. Something I can't get out of a .22 lr, so when I have to have quiet and more safety I use .22 CB longs which are still second best by a long ways. What I use reduced loads for mostly is about what you guys out west use .22 LR for on prairie dogs.