Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Question For PA Deer Hunters???

Yeah, I took the longbow for a walk the other day scouting new areas. I was in a BIG State park, which also joins SGL at other places. The northern end of the park is like a deer desert, but I did find another area in the east that has good sign. I got on a free Topo Map site and checked this area out on the PC. I found a weird place with a high rock outcrop and went to satilite mode. I went there and it had some deer sign, enough to make it huntalbe. I only cut one small track (Fresh snow), which is not good, but there were larger tracks which I am sure were doe. I did see coyote tracks that would have made a German shepard proud. The thing that should bother everybody is: Areas that have barely been hunted the last couple years are not regaining deer. It is starting to bother the PAGC, but they don't want to put it out on the table. Time will tell. Dale, The difference in deer density @ 20 miles is usually tied to gated or ungated dirt roads into the GLs.

PGC has no seasonal open roads listed for either SGL 50 or 82. 50 is broken into 3 chunks by paved roads cutting across, I don't think you can go more than about 1.5 miles in before you are heading out again.

I've never been to 82 but it looks like real biotch to hunt, its STEEP. It looks like there's a township road running through it but I don't see that as much help. All told, I think access is pretty similar.

PGC will adjust doe tags each season based on info from last year but I don't think they can or will make giant jumps in tag numbers in any given year. So they may be decreasing the tags for WMU's that have lower deer numbers but it's not a sudden change.

I don't know what the answer is to getting you more deer without getting overrun in other areas.

Dale

Steep is usually good. Until you get one. Try a Topo map site. It is amazing how accurately you can figure where deer go using them.

Penn State and the PGC have a deer study going on. There's some interesting stuff on the website:

http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/projects/deer

Dale

It is interesting, and it does seem that they (Researchers) have finally discovered that all deer in PA do not live in the same manner. It makes me wonder if any of them ever hunted deer. Most of the "Amazing discoveries" are pretty much common knowledge with country boys. The last 20 or more years research has been done mainly on male racked deer. I always considered this kind of backwards. The buck's mortality starts when he is still a button running with the does. I wish them luck in what they are doing because it seems they are serious about the studies. I read through quickly, but did not see one reference to "Quality deer". As soon as I see the words "Quality" and "Deer" in the same sentence, I am done reading.

What did you think of the little topo maps? Get some and hike in a new area and see how close you came to finding a buck hangout just by mapping. It is really a lot of fun.

Google maps works for me. Not sure how often its updated, but boots on the ground is mandatory anyhow....never know whats changed. I just found a great spot 2 nights ago I overlooked for years. I always saw sign but never put it together until I saw that spot and remembered something I had wrote down 6 years ago. Instant light bulb. Good Lord willin ill spend a week at that spot next season. Far as I know, no one else has hunted it in the 10 yrs I been back in there. I LOVE out of the way public land hot spots, and this one is IT.

I've been using topo's since I was in Scouts in the 70's. If I'm looking for a new area (I've moved twice in the last 5 years) it's a great way to get started. I also like the aerial photography that is available from various sources.

The PGC mapping center is nice because you can switch among different base layers and the clarity remains pretty good even when zoomed in tight. There's a learning curve to it but it's kind of handy to search around.

Dale

Son of a friend took this one this year from an area where most say there are none along with few tracks. Does it every year-hmmmm-and definitely likes things the way they are, with few hunters to mess with his plan. He saw bigger ones than this-as far a horns, I seriously doubt body size-when scouting.

Hmmmm.

Nice deer. Not surprising though. Those low density areas are exactly what I love. Hard work, but when you find them, theyre usually big mature buck. Going back to what I said before, this is a perfect example. AR's didnt create that buck, if its not a fish story. Low density, hunters and deer, let them live longer. And also proves theres plenty of feed to meet their needs, as schitty as those forests be

What would make you believe it would be a fish story??

Anyway, the food supply in that particular area is far from lacking, in that there are what seem to be uncountable number of varying age clearcuts. Guess again on the type of cover this Buck moved in and out of.

Since you have got me on edge with your fish story comment, let me tell you the tale of this particular Buck and just about every other beeeg Deer he as taken from that N. country. The food supply is great and he will essentially take the entire archery season off. He will do more than a little scouting early season and once they start chasing he is in camp until he does or does not get a Deer good. Took two weeks this past year. The year before that was the first time in years he didn't get one and he missed a couple.

He will haul his stands on his back places you wouldn't and probably can't go. He will know where there are more than a couple Deer like this and then as long as there is sign the Does are hanging around in the area he will wait. He will see things you and I probably never notice. I doubt if you could keep up with him when he is on the move.

Your AR conclusions are true up until a certain point. Yes, this Buck got to live long enough up there to reach this size. However, it wouldn't make any difference if he lived in Allegheny Co with many more Deer. Let him live long enough, I.E. don't have him shot the first two years of his life and this is what you would get.

Go fish.

I meant no offense with the fish comment, only stating such because you said not many tracks yet he sees multiple big buck....the two dont go hand in hand. Unless I read it wrong. As far as his hunting prowess, I wouldnt be so quick to put his above mine. Not patting myself on the back, but theres not many men who can still hunt with me, not that id want them with me anyhow. Theres a few here, and on HPA, that know where I hunt, or there abouts(never ever give that info out). Its not for the faint of heart. This year, totally different story. Health issues really got me down. Hopefully, come next year, ill be back to my same old self. Again, no offense toward you or your friend.

Good. However, this was not an infrequent occurrence in his Deer hunting. He does it consistently on ground that most wonder around on for a day or two and them come back and bitch about there being no Deer.

Took me one time and said there is hog hanging in that clear cut and he is in there right now. I didn't kill him, but perhaps my weak attempt at tracking and still hunting pushed him to the only other person I knew was hunting it and he did. He was a thick with horn and easily would top out around 140-150 when it came to measuring them.

He also said, if he knew that someone else was going to be in there he would not have told me about it. He likes AR, he likes few Does because they concentrate the Bucks and he doesn't like a lot of others trying to get them.

Addition: He went to the big woods of Maine one time and eventually tracked one down and killed it.

Addition 2: Found this one in WV when nobody else could find anything. He somehow finds a lot of big Deer.

I have been hunting public land in WV for over 20 years. I have seen a few like it taken during rifle season, (Missed one like it 3 years back) but most are taken during bow when they are on the move during the day. WV has no ARs in the area we hunt, but did open it up to doe hunting the last couple years. The hunters are now about 20%(If that) of what they used to be before the heavy doe hunting. There are spots on that GLs that you used to see deer frequently and now there is no sign of them at all. I go out after a snow in PA and cut tracks that are big and almost guaranteed to be a buck by the way they walk. Deer don't live forever. What happens once the big bucks are dead and there are no deer to replace them? I used to see areas with huge rubs go dead for a year or two, and then another buck would move in and start tearing up the trees. I really don't see that anymore. I am out there to shoot a deer, but don't want to feel like that guy that shot the last buffalo. On the side: Three of us passed on doe in WV this year. A small gesture, but I know some others are doing it too.

How long do you think a big Buck will live? Either they die of old age or someone like him shoots them. If your theory is right that there will be none to replace them, which doesn't seem likely in that there are few hunters seriously chasing them, then either way it makes little difference. On top of that, take the spotlight out in his country and look around. You may just be surprised at what you see re Bucks and they are seeing more Does than in the last 10 years. Why? Dang few are killing them.

Under your thoughts we should completely quit hunting Deer in an area such as where he hunts because in your mind there are not enough. Does are the key. Lay off the Does and the numbers will increase. It worked in reverse when the GC along with us declared war on Does.

WV has had some recent brutal winters in their mountain counties which account for the biggest reason why they are currently few. Limited food and high snow are a knockout.

A good hunter can do that. Theres a lot of guys who consistently bag nice buck. He can be proud he puts in the time to get it done. Not sure what youre getting at though.

You just wrote what I'm getting at.

How many times have you hunted VW? It is rare when they get a winter that kills large amounts of deer. The WMA we hunt is so big it has a Forest Ranger living on the property. We asked him about that years back and he said that it is rare when the winters get that bad. I do remember one, but I believe it was back in the mid 90s. It is the doe hunting killing off the deer on that WMA. It is nice that your friend gets all the time in the world to hunt. Time in the woods makes all the difference. Unfortunately, the average working guy with kids can't take off a week or two to hunt anymore. I used to trap muskrats, sometimes for irrigation pond damage, and you CAN trap out a pond. The first sign is when you start getting nothing but big 'rats in your traps.

We have hunted the Monongahela National Forest three or four times and with talking with the locals when it snows hard it piles up in the hollows significantly. The highest mountain in the MNF is around 4800 feet and they get more than a little.

Tried to find the average snowfall for the area, but didn't have any success. Did see where hurricane Sandy in 2012 left around 33 inches in one storm and I'm sure there was more after that.

When it snows more than a little and then a rain follows, the steep hills become ice covered and are death traps for Deer. Same thing used to be fairly common in Pa years back.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/30/sandy-snow-west-virginia_n_2045519.html

He definitely puts his time in. He usually gets one in Pa and then heads to Ohio for ML. Can't remember when he hasn't been successful there in ages. Not Pa sized Bucks, but he is usually in and out with a Buck fairly quickly.

Of course you could trap out a pond, and if you keep shooting Does were they are few you can shoot them out also. We proved it. We control the game and if an area has few Deer, than common sense tells us if we want more in that area not to kill the few remaining. Hunt where they are and give where they are not time to rebound. But no, most are tied into a specific place and refuse to do so. End result is the rebound never will occur.

If you actually did hunt in large wooded areas, you would see that there really is no hunting pressure and has not been for years. The deer are NOT rebounding. I was in the woods by 9:30 the first day. I saw two hunters all day and they were walking out on a trail. I was the only guy they saw. 20 years ago there would be over a hundred cars parked along there. It is pretty much the same all over up here. There is something wrong and the PAGC knows it or they would not be trying to reverse the situation. I really don't care what or how many deer your buddy kills. That is just a drop of paint in the big picture.

The point with my friend was that a good hunter can find Deer and I really don't care that you obviously can't. Which does however bring up another obvious point.

Now, I've arrived at the point I'm done with your bullshit. You think hunting in an area were 100 cars are parked is quality hunting? If that's the case then I'm thinking your idea of a good hunting is seeing a person behind every tree and having someone eventually push a bunch of Deer past you, hoping you eventually get to shoot something. If fact I'm positive you like the shooting part more than the hunting part, and you don't have all that much fun when the cards aren't stacked in you favor.

You crossed paths with two hunters and at max two cars. Whoa, that really will give someone the necessary knowledge to base an opinion of what is out there in the big woods.

I seriously doubt that you spent 1/10 of the time in Pa big woods than I did this year. I probably hunted Grouse close to 20 days in and around the ANF alone. You think I don't have some clue of what is in there?


You best figure something out; and that is your memories of 20 plus years ago, while they may be good ones, probably will never be seen again here in Pa. You probably should hang it up, sit by the fire, remember and bitch about the GC. Seems that's about all you got left.