Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Any Replacment for H110?

Lil'Gun

I think I've read there are temperature (flame cutting) and/or pressure excursion problems with Lil Gun, I forget which. (Both?)

What I do remember is that I researched it for possible use and nixed it.

Anyone else read this?

Wish you lived in the Denver area...

CH, my understanding is that the flame-cutting and excursions were with some of the later, higher pressure rounds such as the Casull. I have used it for about 3 years now, in .44 Mag, and holding the pressure under SAAMI max (I.E.<36 Kpsi)---no problems.

I am simply speaking for myself and with my particular pieces, both rifle and revolver.

300-MP is what I'd like to get hold of about 50 lbs of.....

[quote=Vic_in_Va]I think the flame cutting with Lil' gun comes from when it's used in cartridges with real high pressure (for a handgun) such as the Casull. I've not noticed an issue with the .44 mag and loads at around 33 to 35 Kpsi.



This has been my observation also.

Ramshot enforcer which I believe is the same, (or very close too), accurate 4100. Of course I haven't seen either for a very long time.

Lil,Gun turned a .357 into a soldering iron, 12 shots and I could not touch the barrel. Freedom will not warranty a gun shot with the stuff. It has no flame suppressor coating. It was made for the .410 shotgun.
4227 was used by most IHMSA shooters in the .44 mag so I tried it. I shot the best 200 meter group with it working a load. But at a shoot in hot weather I kept hitting lower and lower and primers got dead flat. At 200 meters I was 16 clicks over normal and hit 50 meters short with the last shot. I reduced the load, same problem. I changed to 296 and won Ohio state with 79 out of 80, last ram miss was my fault.
I used 4227 in the .357 max and shot a 39 out of 40 with no sight settings using a new Ruger out of box.
As calibers change so does powder results.
Seeing such things makes me stay away from some powders in other guns also.
Those that shot 4227 from the .44 on the line did the most cussing. You shoot five shots and call it good, how about 40 or 80? How about the hot days and sun? If I still had the max, it would be my powder but it will never go in my .44.
If you think Lil'Gun only does damage at high pressures, I am not going there because Lil'Gun generates lower pressures to start with. The pressure range and accuracy is good but it is HOT burning. All powders can exceed the melting point of steels but Lil'Gun does not let the steel absorb it and radiate it away fast enough.
Do what you want to, it is your gun after all.
Call me an SOB and dispute but things I never promote is to go over pressures or damage a gun in any way.
The rich man-poor man enters all the time too, some have 10 Freedoms or 20 Rugers while a man has ONE Ruger that took forever to buy. He wants the gun to shoot and last his lifetime. Don't blow smoke about what you do all the time without knowledge.

My favorite powder in the 45 Colt is 2400, 357 Magnum is H110 and Unique . I only use Lil'Gun in my 22 Hornet and 454 Cas

j

According to Freedom Arms it is not the pressure but the high flame temperature that is the problem with Li gun FA will not warranty any of their revolvers if Lil gun is used in them.
Bob Baker tested the powder in a 357 mag when they kept getting revolvers back with forcing cone erosion. Call FA and Mr. Baker will explain the problem with Lil gun.

Thank you John, 100% true.

The only pressure related anomaly I'm aware of with Lil'Gun is that at high pressures (talking 55-60K in 300 BLK) it actually loses a little velocity sometimes, particularly if the load is compressed.

Not to say it doesn't happen, but I personally never had any issues with flame cutting or bore erosion from Lil'Gun in 45 Colt +P loads, and haven't seen any issues in the 300 Blackout either, although that's a completely different thing.

One noticeable difference between H110/296 and Lil'Gun is the amount of flash and blast, with Lil'Gun making significantly less.

Better yet. Call Hodgdon. They will tell you that Lil'gun has the same burn temperature as H110, Win 296 and HP38.

Who do we believe? Who does the most testing across the board with different cartridges?

You take cartridges like the Casull,.460 and .500 that burn a lot of slow burning powders at high pressures, pushed by Rifle primers across the cylinder gap of a revolver where the partially burned powder is mixed with oxygen. It is a tough situation for a revolver design. Look back at the problems Ruger had with the .357 Maximum in the Blackhawks. This was before the introduction of Lil'gun.

It did not work so well in my revolvers, accuracy-wise, so I gave up on it there. 300-MP is currently my (unavailable) favorite.

In my 77/44, It has better accuracy than 296. I haven't tried 300-MP or N110 in the rifle.

During sighting-in sessions, I haven't noticed the temperature of the barrel getting any hotter than with 296, but then again I haven't read it with a digital thermometer, nor have I tended to fire rapid strings.

Though not a conclusive determination, in my experience Lil'gun, in a .44 Mag, and with SAAMI compliant loads does not have the negative effects seen with the bigger capacity and higher pressure loads. I am aware of it's reputation, though, and have kept an eye out for any signs of damage, but so far it's been good.

Freedom Arms 307-883-2468

I agree. Just keep an eye on things.

Another thing is, I do know that there are many different formulations of steel be it carbon or Stainless. I do not know what specific steels FA uses and what properties those alloys have in all respects.

Back in the early to mid '90's, Lil'gun was responsible for the development of two new cartridges. The CCI Velocitor and the .17 HMR. Both very good cartridges. I have used 1000's of both with no problems what so ever. But both operate at a much lower pressure level than what we are talking about here. ... and at much lower quantity of Lil'gun per cartridge.

Hodgdon 913-362-9455


Hi John, How are you?

Flame temperature might be the same but where is it applied and how fast? I am sure a pile of FFFFG BP has the same temps as cartridge but I assure you FFFFG is not where you want it in a rifle.
Powders have a suppressant coating to slow burn rates from one piece of powder to another to extend distance. The coating must be breached for flame to enter. Most powders are exactly the same formulation and only the coating and shape, size of grains changes the burn rate.
I think Lil'Gun has a different formulation where the coating has changed. There must be a flash over. It might not burn hotter but where is the heat in relation to your steel?

I am fine, think you.

I have Hogdon number and have spoken to them many times, thank you. I also believe Bob Baker after speaking with him.

In this kind of situation, the one with the least to lose.