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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,929
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,929 |
Also, any chance of having a prototype at the Great Outdoor Show in Harrisburg next week?
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I'll not be pre-ordering anything. The last time I did that was with a company panhandling online to get the Montana Rifleman action going and I took it in the shorts with lie after lie.
Yes, it's good to see someone soliciting ideas for their product, I wish nothing but luck for them.
I also see a few giving lots of reach arounds for something they've never held/touched/shot, etc, which is humorous to watch.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 502
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 502 |
JasonH, go and look at how many members are on this site. It has the most of any gun forum on the web that I visit by a huge margin. And if you don't think people will by stuff that is done right, think again. Matter of fact I just saw 50 rifles spec'd right in a custom order from kimber sell in less than two days on another forum. The order isn't finalized yet, but I don't forsee many backing out of their word on that one. I'm more than willing to give one of these rifles a go, but if I can't shoot the bullets I want to run, there's no point. Why give a great accuracy guarantee and not twist it for the bullets used where that accuracy will matter. A 1.5 moa rifle will kill a lot of stuff to 300 yards no problem shooting ping pong balls.
As far as the gun writers and tv show hosts go. You said it yourself. They have to pay the bills. So you are never going to get a 100% real review from 99% of them. I prefer to stay in my career field, run my side business with my wife, and buy/build stuff as I see fit. Not pimp somebody else's [bleep] up for a few dollars and some free ammo.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,961
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,961 |
Good post...
I just read through the entire thread for the first time. It sure was easy to tell those who have never shot faster twisted rifles in a given caliber.
One of my questions for Paul is: why are manufacturers afraid to go to with faster twists when indications are they are wanted and they do work for all bullet weights, light to heavy. As stated before, bullets are getting longer, not shorter, for a given weight. I have played with faster twists in several sub-30 caliber cartridges for years and have not found a reason to not go with a faster twist barrel with any of the cartridges I have used for hunting at what are perceived as normal hunting distances.
I too hope all goes well with Legendary Arms Works' endeavor.....
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
People that actually shoot understand the merits of high bc bullets, and hence the needed twist.
A custom 243 with a 10 -or- 9 twist is about as awesome as a scope with a mil reticle and moa controls. Where do gun companies and optics companies get their engineers? PETA?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,841
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,841 |
"this rifle appeared to be shooting MOA but I couldn't go down range to check" TFF! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLrgEaGBqSk#t=112
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Geez that's an embarrassing endorsement. Can I get one to try out?
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,446 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,446 Likes: 2 |
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,929
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,929 |
Wonder why he couldn't go downrange to check? Wasnt like the snow was too deep or anything.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,381
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,381 |
were other folks still shooting at that time?......
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,383
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,383 |
That appeared to be from the gunwriter range day they have before SHOT. There were probably a ton of people on the line firing various new offerings and they only get a limited amount time to handle the guns and then it's on down the line to the next manufacturer.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
probably so.
All that artillery and no one had an optic to take a pic of a 100 yard target?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,841
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,841 |
How about just a spotting scope to accurately report how it shot
instead of it "appeared to shoot"
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
I got a 300 yard target behind the house and a 13 year old with a Motorola.
Get me a LAW (I think it had a Zeiss on it, that's fine) and I'll run it up the flag pole.
With pics.
(I have a cute daughter, so that can only help)
p.s. I have dies on hand for 30-06, 243, and 222 rem.
Bring ammo for anything else.
I'll also need a dozen on the half shell if you bring a 270.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Goddammmit Spomer!
Walk your happy ass over to a spotting scope and look at the GD target!
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
RDFinn, I think we might as well give up. LOL. There is little chance of opening any of the narrow minds on this subject. Let's just see what happens when the rifles hit the market and people get their hands on them.
Okbow87, while there are quite a few rifle loonies on this forum, I seriously doubt that many of them would be willing to put their money where their mouth is, even if a manufacturer took a vote on this forum and built a rifle to those exact specs.
It is also a bit shallow to condem gun writers or TV hosts for giving favorable reviews to the folks that place ads in their magazines or sponsor their shows. Gotta keep the lights on and pay the bills.......not gonna happen if you trash your sponsors. There are a few gun writers that I respect, and I tend to give some weight to their opinions. Craig Boddington is one of those writers. I have met him and found him to be a real down to earth guy who is extremely passionate about his job. He has a vast amount of experience hunting more types of game than I will ever see, and he has pulled quite a few triggers in his day. He seems to like the new LAW rifles, and I think that bodes well for them. if you think you can do a better job, why don't you submit your resume? Perhaps we will all be reading your reviews in Guns and Ammo one day. I've dropped more than the cost of a LAW on rifles before (and handguns) and will do so again, when one fits the parameters I want or when I have (another) built to purpose. Guns and Ammo? They'll write up a glowing report about any turd that someone pays them to review. Boddington has merit, but so does John Barsness, and Steve Timm, and a host of other writers on this forum. You pegged it though, on the press/media, they won't get paid and make their budgets if they don't pimp the wares of whomever is paying them. That's why I will take the word of UNPAID, known shooters over the PAID press any day and every day.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
My thoughts:
First, I think its great that we are seeing an interesting approach in a new rifle - a hybrid of the custom rifle many make/buy - think good action plus an aftermarket stock. Eg Model 70 for 700/800 plus a mcmillan for 500/600.
Like many I spend a lot of time on forums looking for rifles. I'm partial to CRF so I generally look for a model 70 with a nice aftermarket stock and, ideally, a good barrel but would be fine with a nice stock and factory barreled action. LAW seems to be providing this plus a better trigger and, likely, a better barrel than most factory rifles. Seems like a great start to me. Bottom metal does look a bit clunky, but most companies change their products over time to make them better.
While I agree with the feedback on twist rates, I'm impressed with the change to the .243 and, like others, think we should give these guys a chance to get going and iterate their product. They are trying to provide a high quality rifle for a good value - IMHO we should all be cheering them on - why would any of us not want another rifle option - especially one trying to hit the spot between factory and synthetic customs - no downside to any of us, all upside if they are successful in building a great rifle.
Lastly, like others have said - big kudos to Paul Reed for providing the information he has and thanks to him for actually caring what all of us think - although given some of the responses, I'm surprised he's staying in the discussion.
Lastly, like others have said - big kudos to Paul Reed for providing the information he has and thanks to him for actually caring what all of us think - although given some of the responses, I'm surprised he's staying in the discussion.
My feelings as well. How many companies come onto a forum not only to announce a new product, but take the time (and grief) to listen to potential buyers, answer questions and take feedback honestly with a willingness to make changes if necessary ? I think maybe Forbes did but not sure. Kimber ? Nope. Agreed on all the above.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I'm an unemployed alcoholic and even I own a Ziess spotter with a camera attached to it!
SONOFABITCH, Ron!
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
RDFinn, I think we might as well give up. LOL. There is little chance of opening any of the narrow minds on this subject. Let's just see what happens when the rifles hit the market and people get their hands on them.
Okbow87, while there are quite a few rifle loonies on this forum, I seriously doubt that many of them would be willing to put their money where their mouth is, even if a manufacturer took a vote on this forum and built a rifle to those exact specs.
It is also a bit shallow to condem gun writers or TV hosts for giving favorable reviews to the folks that place ads in their magazines or sponsor their shows. Gotta keep the lights on and pay the bills.......not gonna happen if you trash your sponsors. There are a few gun writers that I respect, and I tend to give some weight to their opinions. Craig Boddington is one of those writers. I have met him and found him to be a real down to earth guy who is extremely passionate about his job. He has a vast amount of experience hunting more types of game than I will ever see, and he has pulled quite a few triggers in his day. He seems to like the new LAW rifles, and I think that bodes well for them. if you think you can do a better job, why don't you submit your resume? Perhaps we will all be reading your reviews in Guns and Ammo one day. Any gun manufacturer that has had to re-tool has been going to faster twisted barrels. Slow twists are being phased out. It only makes sense to advise a new company to do same from the jump. It will help them make money. Fast twist = more sales. Slow twist = less sales. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
I'm sure the 1% of the market represented here at the Campfire will welcome faster twist rates. They rest of their market never even bother to ask about twist rates, nor care.
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