Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Lightweight stalking woods rifle optimal caliber help

Ive crippled my rifle looney brain lately wanting a walkabout stalking woods rifle under 6lb weight with a 2.5 fixed or 4x fixed on top for killing anything crossing my path. Said critters will be no larger than a black bear and they'll probably be passed over if I'm lucky to see one - Mostly deer and pigs and the occasional smaller critter unfortunate enough to cross my path. All of this under 300 yards and mostly less than 200.

I've really been interested in the CZ 527 carbine converted to a 6.5 Grendel, but will be looking at about 1200-1300 tmd. I also considered leaving it as a 7.62x39 and reloading it for better potency if that's even necessary. But both of those cartridges and some of the rifle's features give me pause, though.

Which brings me to the point I am at and scratching my head. Why not just get a 223 and AI it? From what I've read on here so far, seems it is killing everything I'd ever point it at in the animal categories mentioned above with aplomb. The reason I hesitate on the Grendel is I really want to shoot the hell out of it and cost alone would steer me to the 223AI, not to mention the component availability and my intentions to use them heavily.

-So should I run the 6.5 Grendel out of the 527 and deal with the rings issue and backasswards safety,
-go cheap with a Ruger American in 223 and AI it, or
-Kimber Montana 84M in 223 and AI it?

Suggestions for a poor fellow looney in need?

1st Gen Rem 700 Ti in 7-08.

Or something else similar in the same chambering; IMO, it calls for a 20-22" barrel, 24" is not optimum in this case.

MM

A Savage 99 in 250 Savage, it's been doing what you want for a hundred years and with a Leupold 1x4 you get all you want.



Even more versatile. You can add grouse, crows, squirrels and ducks to the menu.

To the O.P,

I have been where you are now except we don't have hogs I'm my neck of the woods. Deer turkeys and predators are my main targets.

I have done the cz thing and they are a quality rifle but the high and heavy rings plus the magazine sticking out where your hand should be made me go get away from these rifles. Not sure how a Grendel would feed from the mag either.

I would say a Montana if you can afford it, a Ruger if you can't from your list of options.

I have both rifles in 223 and a lightweight 223 AI on a Remington action and have to say the kimber is my pick of the bunch, it's the lightest and still balances and handles really well.

Although I really like my 223 AI I wouldn't tear a good shooting 223 normal apart to punch it. Although you do gain some speed I think a lot of that is due to running it hotter. Also at typical hunting ranges the added energy and slightly flatter trajectory just don't make much difference in real world situations. Plus feeding of AI's can be an issue.

Pick a 223 you like and shoot the heck out of it. You will do well with it.

One of the various compact rifles currently popular and available would work nicely. Chambering would start with 243 win, 260, 7mm08 and 308 win. Top your rifle with a light fixed scope in 2x, 3x or 4x. Even one of the levers that are available in same calibers. I have a light fast lever in 358 for my woods rifle, although I'm quite comfortable with an A7 in 308. Good luck with your search.

I finally handled a 527, and didn't think the magazine would be an issue. I was wrong. I have an 84L and love the way it handles. For the price it is a bargain and has it all for what need it fills. I thought the 223 was one of the few cartridges that gained quite a bit from the AI change, but perhaps you are correct with sticking with the factory chambering. As far as the Ruger, I like the twist rate and price, but I've surpassed entry level rifles awhile ago and although it sounds like it's a great gun, I can save my pennies at this point to get what I want.

For what you really want to do, a very lightweight AR (such as a Carbon 15), loaded with Nosler 64BSB bullets, with a Leupie 1-4x on top.

4winds,

The reason the .223 AI "benefits" is it normally gets loaded to higher pressures than the standard .223. The SAAMI maximum average pressure limit for the .223 is 55,000 psi, and most brass can be loaded to at least 65,000 psi before showing "pressure signs." Thus when handloaders work up in a .223 AI they're usually working with at least 10,000 more psi. When loaded to the same pressure the difference between the standard and AI is about 50-75 fps.

4winds-

I ain't a tiny cal. fan when it comes to deer and ESP. hogs.

Close, woods, etc., 20" bll. 308. The larger the chamber and BORE the lighter the rifle will be.

'something' like a Ruger 77 UL in 308 defines "handy"!!

I am with you on the kimber, for what you get they are a deal, no way you can build a remington with like components and be in their price range.

The AI does gain some speed, I see about 150 fps with 55 grainers, less as the bullets get heavier. The bottom line is that you gain about 2.2 to 2.5 grains of capacity which with single based powders will give you somewhere around 75 to 100 fps at similar pressures. Much above that just comes from standing on it, which can be done with a 223 normal as well. I am not advising hot rodding at all, just stating what I have seen with my personal experiences.

along with a little increase in speed the AI has great brass stability.

the negatives are the higher cost of dies, added gunsmithing cost and ,the biggy for me, the fact that they can be tough to get to feed well.

As others have pointed out, the 223 may not be the ideal round for hunting bigger game but it's merits as a round that you can and will shoot a lot for practice and fun swing things in it's favor for me. I am very confident with the 223 for about anything I will shoot because its the round I shoot more than all the others combined. The only round I shoot anywhere close to as much is the 243 which is a good choice but not nearly as much fun to flog the hell out of as littler rounds.

keep us posted

I have always thought a mini Mauser action barreled in 7TCU ,20-22" barrel and a light weight stock would be da shiznit!!!

Any thoughts to a 6x45 or 25x45 on a Rem Model Seven or small Sako, John Wooters built the 25/222 Copperhead on a small Sako and I've built a 25-204(257 Kimber with no fireformin and readily available brass)on a short action Sav., they are both ideal with bulk 85gr cast bullets for plinking and small game for the pot , move up to 87gr SP's or 100gr Partitions and the 25-204 will match 250 Savage factory ballistic and the Copperhead and 25-223 not far behind.

A Kimber 84M in 7-08 or 308 should fit your need. They are amazing in that they fit all of my hunting/shooting partners who love the fit and feel.

6LBS all in sounds like a tall order.

Kimber 84M .223 works well for me for stated purpose. Campfire wisdom helped guide me to this selection.

Perfect walkabout Rifle in my opinion.

No levers or ARs for me, I'm a bolt guy to the core. I love all guns and they are fun to shoot, but when it is used for a purpose like hunting, for me a bolt is the best in a rifle.

The 527, Kimber and the new Howa Mini action all intrigue me due to the action being scaled back and lighter for what I think makes a better balanced rifle. It is all the handling characteristics and features that have me perplexed. I really wanted a very light recoiling round in a light weight platform that I could enjoy shooting repeatedly without taking an Advil at the end of the day, as well as, hitting the woods with it to take some of the critters I mentioned above. I can run about 40 rounds through my Kimber 84l in 270 before losing some concentration because of how light the rifle is and the cartridge being run in it. Outside of a 243 or maybe a 260, the Kimber Montana can get painful when you are running even a 7-08 for awhile.

Those mini actions and an ultra lightweight like the Kimber are a heck of a lot more comfortable for long range sessions with a "smaller than a short action cartridge" like a Grendel, 223 or similar platform...hence my interest. What I'm not sure of is, is the Grendel, 6.8 or 300 blackout really anymore effective than the 223 running a premium cartridge like a ttsx or partition when hunting southern whitetails and smaller pigs and other critters at a shorter range?

Would you have rather went with a 243 instead?

Thanks JB, that makes sense and narrows some of the questions I have.

The desire for a 6 pound rifle in a chambering I'd feel completely comfortable with for deer and hogs is indeed a tall order.

In any rifle action, the larger the bore size and chamber (in an equal size barrel) the lighter the rifle. It's going to be really tough to reach your 6 pound limit as it is, so I'd likely not even think about any smaller bore sizes.

The Kimber is the right size action and combined with a minimum diameter barrel of maybe 20"....you just "might" make your weight limit if chambered in .308 and come even closer if chambered for the .358. Recoil will be bit stiff in such a light gun, but any chambering above the 7mm-08 will likely make 6 pounds impossible.

Too bad that the "perfect" gun/action for this project is no longer made and quite expensive if you can locate one. The Savage Model 20 in .300 Savage was made to order for your requirements.

I apologize for confusing some of you. I was referring to the bare rifle being under 6 lbs., not total weight. I think all of the ones I've mentioned are between 5.5 and 6 lbs.