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Originally Posted by DeereJohn
Originally Posted by swarf
Yes Mike. The "Pittsburg Machinegun." If I remember correctly these are at their best with see-through mounts, and any cheap scope.

These are also the people that cannot bring enough alcohol to camp to stay at least partly well plastered for a few days straight, and are what we called "ticket fillers." Their motto is, "we have six licenses, so we should shoot six deer. What's the difference who shoots them?" Hence the machine gun term.

My father started hunting over in PA before WW2. He started taking me over there when I was about 14. As family changes took place we sold our last place in Elk County. When my father started taking me we were lucky we had money for gas, and often slept in the car Friday night to hunt Saturday. I saw my first bear in the woods about then. During deer season. It made my entire hunting season. I never hunted bear over there, but I always enjoyed seeing them, and just getting to observe them in their element.

I am not anthropomorphic. But, when I harvest game it is in a legal season and allotted, and I do think that I owe it a good and unexpected death without suffering, and not the inevitable decline of old age, starvation, and suffering.

This is the last place were I should think that someone who has had the opportunity to knock around Alaska for a year or so should be belittled and remanded for wanting to buy another rifle... It's not necessarily what you are doing, but also what you want to do next.

Do you really need a big excuse to want another rifle? Maybe some of you people should just go out and buy a chicken and choke it to eat.

If my being somewhat educated, well read, and well informed is offensive to you, and having formed opinions. Shame on you. I pride myself on having learned, grown, and changed many of my opinions since I was 14. I still try to do that. Science has changed its opinions on many things since I was 14. It seems a sad state of affairs in the world today that many have only become more simplistically hysterical and only look for evidence to buttress there views - like a bad scientist, or a poor historian.

I have gotten to the age and stage in life where when sometimes, someone says something I often say, "Maybe I'll get hit by the "Big Truck" by then." They often respond, "But you might not die!" My response is always a surprised look and, "Don't you understand the term BIG?"

We should all be happy to be our game.



I honestly don't think you realize it ,but I think you have a superiority complex.I don't think you mean to offend folks,but it's just the way you are.You feel that your being "Somewhat educated",as you put it gives credence to your opinions,and that us commoners are just incapable of knowing something you don't.You do honestly feel all this negative attention you've been getting is because we "Resent your education",as you put it,and you must think that referring to yourself as "Well read",and "Well informed" commands respect of your views.Why don't you show the deer your PHD Degree,and see what they think...P.S. What do you mean by"We should all be happy to our game"?



Why does everything have to diagnosed anymore? Dumb [bleep] pretty much covers it.

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
I wrote above:

"If someone uses a tiny cartridge he, in theory, might have to pass up some shot on some buck sometime!"

I know I can take tougher shots with a more effective cartridge.


So, you've given up on the "Vermont dictates a heavy caliber" bit. That's good, because the facts don't bear that out - as I stated.

You're left to "well, I can take a marginal shot with a heavier caliber". There are two points on this, though I doubt you'll address either of them.

The first is that such an attitude goes directly against the Hunter Education courses about being an ethical hunter and taking only high percentage shots. Taking marginal shots leads to more wounded and lost game, and is - proven - to be bad for the sporting of hunting. That is exactly counter to your position that people passing up shots are hurting hunting. So, how is it that you advocating taking marginal shots improves hunting with IHEA and evidence state otherwise? How is it that an ethical hunter passing up marginal shots harms hunting when that position is supported by IHEA and evidence?

The second point is a bit more direct. Given your stance that you should never have to pass up a shot because of the choice in cartridge and rifle you've made, how many deer have you killed in the past decade? Please include distances, angles, body size, and other pertinent details. I doubt you'll answer this question either, because frankly I don't believe you've actually killed anything (perhaps ever) in a very long time. Carrying a light caliber or a heavy one is irrelevant if you never or very rarely ever pull the trigger.

I know you're playing the "fake ignore" game, and that's fine. It only makes you look even more foolish.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Uh, GFY.

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I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Don, in VT you aren't hunting 250 lb bucks like you are in Maine. I don't really know what shots you'd have to pass up on a 175 lb. buck with a .243 that you can take with a .358?

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None. To pass up shots one would have to hunt.


Camp is where you make it.
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Originally Posted by gitem_12
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by Savage_99

"I determined that if I had a powerful rifle and practiced with it I would get more.


I have no idea what that means...



Neither does he
Maybe he (savage_99) is talking about nookie?


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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell

Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard

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Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Ruark formulated his opinions on his first Safari after blowing up chunks of warthogs with a 220 Swift and C&C bullets of the day. He was mostly a bird hunter with virtually no big game experience before that....Thereafter he used a 30/06,375H&H and 470 NE after that first safari IIRC.

Standing over a dead moose is not the time to lament the inadequacies of a 7 Rem Mag and 160 Partitions. I wonder what happens at 30 caliber that doesn't at 7mm if bullets are good in both cases?

If virtue and morality comes at 338, a guy might as well buy his way into Heaven and go 416.

Last edited by BobinNH; 02/20/15.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Ruark formulated his opinions on his first Safari after blowing up chunks of warthogs with a 220 Swift and C&C bullets of the day. He was mostly a bird hunter with virtually no big game experience before that....Thereafter he used a 30/06,375H&H and 470 NE after that first safari IIRC.

Standing over a dead moose is not the time to lament the inadequacies of a 7 Rem Mag and 160 Partitions. I wonder what happens at 30 caliber that doesn't at 7mm if bullets are good in both cases?

If virtue and morality comes at 338, a guy might as well buy his way into Heaven and go 416.


Bob,

Please don't bring common sense and actual facts into this. Savage_99 and swarf can't deal with such things.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Originally Posted by swarf
In many ways I agree with Savage 99. Robert Ruark was correct.

Those idiots who think that a 223 is perfect for deer and black bear are repugnant. To brag about how small a cartridge that you can kill something with is disgusting. To take any life and not give it a good death is disgusting. I think that these disgusting dolts should be sentenced to perhaps a miserable, slow, death by cancer. Give them what they deserve.

These thoughts are not provincialism. They are human decency. Our game deserves more than that from us. I always thought that whitetail rounds began with something like a 250 Savage, and went up in power from there.

I have taken but one critter in my life bigger than a whitetail, and that was an Alaskan bull moose. I used a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160 partition. As I looked in awe at it on the ground, my first thought was, "the guys are right... the Alaskan minimum for moose should be 30 caliber and up."

I promised myself, at that time, that if I ever took another Alaskan moose I would have a 338. "I" wasn't in a survival situation. "I" should be a better, more decent, person for having the privilege of taking that large Alaskan moose.

Sitting up in a tree and taking headshots "only" at 25 feet, over a corn pile, at night, is not hunting. There is a difference.


Uh, GFY.

[Linked Image]



Concise and to the point EH

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Bob. has it right about Ruark, a mediocre writer of sensational "novels" largely based in Africa and the US South. He copied Ernest Hemingway's style and tried to pose as his equal in the literary sense and as a "big game" hunter of world renown and expertise.

Ruark, to anyone who actually HAS serious wilderness experience, was a rather pathetic person and lacked any real substance as anything other than a "potboiler" scribe.

I will say, tho', that 47 years of use of the fabulous .338WM in BC and siding me for 5.5 month stints in the Albertan Rockies, living alone in Grizzly country working in forest protection, has demonstrated to me that such a cartridge HAS many benefits if one can shoot it well.

I have used a Kimber of Oregon .223, a P-64 .375, a Browning Safari .30-06, a P-64 Std. .30-06 a Marlin .336-44Mag. and my treasured original P-64-.338 during several stints at this work.

The .338 is BEST and many BC guides and serious, working bush/mountain men here would agree....we all have stood over various large quadrupeds and at 68, I am not finished yet, by God.

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Damn straight SNAP!

Except you can't go bragging up a rifle without posting a pic of it!

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Dan,

Y'all still have the rimfire garbage on wma's for hogs in Fla?

Georgia finally separated head from rear and replaced rimfires with centerfires for hunting furbearers and varmints on wma's which means hogs as well. Thinking on tripping my 22 mag and replacing it with a center fire for those critters.

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I'm doing hog eradication volunteer work for the state on preserve lands and am restricted to RF arms. Dunno about the rest of the state and regs, no big need to follow that at present.

Pork chops are the best form of a hog I've found.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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They are tasty!

Can't tell from the pics are you using 22 mag?

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Originally Posted by 4winds
They are tasty!

Can't tell from the pics are you using 22 mag?


CB Shorts.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

[Linked Image]


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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You are doing volunteer work and yet they restrict you to RF?

Kinda like kissing your sister ain't it? Just don't seem right.


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There are some big 250lb+ whitetail deer in PA in the thick woods. Lots of guys use a 30-06 or heavier in the belief that they need to need to put them down fast. In Potter County for example, on opening day, if a hit deer runs 40 or 50 yards, someone else is going to put lead in it, then try to claim it. JD Jones wrote an interesting article that he sold a lot of 45-70 Contender (pistol) barrels to PA hunters who wanted to put down deer fast, with out them running far. Whether you think bigger calibers put down big whitetail deer faster, is a matter of opinion. Plenty of people do believe it though, and they surely practice it--right or wrong.

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That's special.


"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Isn't it though Scott. Really, really special, just like you.

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