Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Remington 700 recall....every last one of them

Yes the aftermarket Timney fixes the Remington problem, and yes I have had it happen to me. It was on an old (but very clean) gun that someone may or may not have worked on the trigger. It was the Walker trigger that locked the bolt handle down. In any event, the Timney fixes the problem by design.

Questions I have to ask on this,because I have not paid much attention to this issue other than to be aware of it;nor have I read any of the cases involved.

But I wonder why we don't see these kinds of problems with rifles manufactured by Savage, Winchester, Sako...etc etc in terms of proportionate (in relation to numbers of rifles in circulation) numbers of lawsuits and accidents.

If, as some suggest, the majority of these "incidents" are caused by failure of the users to maintain and clean the rifles correctly,or failure to follow proper gun handling procedures, then is there something about Remington owners that causes this to happen? Are they as a group more inclined to mistreat or mishandle the firearms?

I understand there are a lot of Remingtons in circulation but the numbers of rifles out there by other makers is certainly not insignificant; yet we don't hear as much (or anything) about lawsuits and discharges with these other rifles as we do about the Remingtons.

Personally I find it hard to believe that ONLY Remington owners fail to follow proper procedures for cleaning and safety, or that only Remington owners adjust triggers themselves improperly. It just does not make sense that these are the only factors at work.

Gotta be something else that contributes to this. I understand that no mechanism is foolproof. But it seems to me that a certain percentage of rifle owners of other makes are going to be equally remiss as Remington users and sloppy about maintenance and safety,and inclined to lousy gun handling.

If one device fails,rendering it dangerous because it gets a little dirty,and another subject to the same abuse,does not,is the one that fails a defective design? Especially if the manufacturer knows that the anticipated use of the devise would be under circumstances that would cause it to get dirty?

So, where are the lawsuits against,and recalls by, Savage, Winchester, Sako, Tika, etc etc......are they out there? Are Remington users as a class more inclined to behave and treat their rifles stupidly, contributing to the problem?

What's up? I'm asking....not taking a position.

Yeah - Two different triggers.

Here's a link to the Remington recall.
Its for some newer rifles with the X-Mark Pro, XMP, trigger (smooth)
http://xmprecall.remington.com/

Here's a link on MSN for the CNBC report.
It shows the older Remington triggers that are grooved.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...or-popular-us-gun/ar-BBgoPPI?ocid=ASUDHP

I don't and wont trust any mechanical safety!
Note the injuries all occurred because someone had a rifle with:
A loaded round in the chamber
And pointed at someone
When they slammed the bolt close or flipped the safety to fire.

Remington can't fix or recall STUPID!!!


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I'd like to get to the bottom of this. I have talked to my GS since this has been "brewing" all over the web. He said his practice is to run a safety check on all M700 rifles he works on before returning then to his customers and has never had one fail. He's been in business for 40 years, has tried to retire twice but seems there's still been some high $$$$$.$$ job he can't refuse.

I had a bolt that need some work. He wasn't too busy when I visited so I got to stay and help him. Afterwards he pulled down a M700 with that grooved trigger he had just acquired in a trade. He showed me his safety check then we took it apart from the stock, adjusted the trigger down to 2 Lbs and it would not fire slamming the bolt with the safety on fire. He then cocked the rifle with the safety on, pulled the trigger hard, released the trigger, pushed the safety to fire and it did! He then adjusted the trigger back up to a little over 3 Lbs and it would pass all these safety checks. Afterwards he nail polished the adjusted screws in place.

So, yes I personally have seen a miss-fire - But only because we were messing with the trigger. All my M700 pass these safety checks and I really don't want to mess with something that just isn't broke.

I have no doubt that there are Remington 700 triggers out there that have not been adjusted since leaving the factory and which are unsafe. Given the number made and the production environment in which they were made, it would be improbable that all would be perfect. But there must be a lot of perfect triggers on 700 series rifles and while it is certainly possible to get a bad one, the proven defective error rate as a fraction of the total in service must be miniscule.

I currently have 84 Remington 700 series rifles that date back to the early 1950, shortly before I was born. I have probably owned in the neighborhood of 250 for them over the years and have yet to have a trigger problem with any of them. Being a fairly "gunny" sort, I have spoken with, hunted with, and generally hung out with a lot of other "gunny" guys and I never recall anyone having a trigger problem or knowing firsthand anyone who had a trigger problem with a 700 series rifle.

OTOH, I have seen Mauser and Steyr-mannlicher rifles with double-set triggers (DSTs) go off when the set trigger was set very light and I have seen people accidently discharge exposed hammer lever action rifles. When Bearrr264 was hosting hunting parties, he wouldn't allow either rifles with DSTs or rifles with exposed hammer half-cocked, safeties to hunt on his ground, as he felt that both could be unsafe as designed and were often unsafe as used.

EDIT: I have had one accidental discharge that I recall. It was on a sporterized U.S. Krag that someone had "adjusted" the trigger such that when you closed the bolt vigorously, the firing pin would occasionally drop. Occasionally, not always, not even regularly, but occasionally enough for me to put it out of service until it was fixed by a 'smith who wasn't guessing and grinding.

A guy driving a Chevy with a bad ignition switch on Firestone tires to the post office to ship his rifle back for a new trigger is probably in the most danger.

More or less my way of thinking too ,especially on the trigger adjustments done by someone that shouldn't have done it

jesus...maybe you ought to explain your logic on the M700 shortcomings to the military and leo snipers. they'd probably flock to Mausers and M70s...

I see it like this: if you are looking for money, wouldn't you go after the company with the most?

Bingo......

Lawyers, MSNBC, high profile company, and the fact the original designer didnt like it to begin with. How many AD's are attributed to Glocks?

I still have not seen any talk about, or most important, any recommendations for the replacement triggers. miles

YES

It eliminates the problem.

that depends on who adjusted it.

Toad I will ask it again. I did not put forth a "logic" on M700 shortcomings.

(And whitewashing the issue with military and LEO snipers is has nothing to do with what I asked.)


If it's the "users", then why have there not been as many suits against Winchester, or Savage,or Tika or Sako? Are Remington owners disproportionately negligent in maintaining and using their rifles? I doubt it.

"Going where the money is" has nothing to do with it. Unless they self insure, all the conglomerates that own these gun companies have liability insurance, so the "money" is there in all instances,and for any of these gun companies... Scratch that as an issue.

And ambulance chasing lawyers have no affect on this one way or the other. Walk into a law firm and just try to get a firm to bring a product liability suit....good luck.The burden of proof is very heavy and rests on the ability of the plaintiff to prove the defect.

Before a complaint is even filed,any large firm will have reports by qualified experts pin pointing the defects and these "opinions"cost tens of thousands of dollars, up front. Unless the lawyers feel there is a reasonable likelihood of success on the merits and facts of the case, they will not even file the complaint. The heavy lifting is actually done well before a suit is commenced.

And no law firm s going to file suit without knowing they have a reasonable likelihood of success because: (a) they are subject to sanctions by the Court for filing frivolous claims, and (b) they do not get paid unless the court rules in their favor, or the case settles.Also, don't forget there are defense lawyers and defense experts on the gun company side,as well.

In other words where there is smoke, there's a fire. Or the suits would not have been brought in the first place.

And if , as many seem to feel, all the blame for the incidents leading to injury or death from these triggers rest solely with the users of the rifles, then why have there been no recalls, far fewer lawsuits,and injuries resulting from the use of other rifles for similar issues?

Or has there been? Where are the lawsuits against Winchester or Savage, etc for trigger related issues? That's my question.

I am aware of ONE lawsuit against Remington. but this paper disputes your "where there's smoke, there's fire' argument. the media manufactured the 'smoke'


An Overview of Lawsuits against the Gun Industry

Toad....c'mon. Took me two minutes on line to find this. One lawsuit? There's been many of them.

Read it. It's well known there were internal memos among Remington executives admitting the design was defective. They ignored it.That was decades ago....they ignored it a long time

If I wanted to waste a pile of time finding more suits it wouldn't be hard..

Refutes "where there's smoke there's fire"? I sort of very firmly doubt it.

I'll ask again.....why no rash of similar suits against Winchester, and Savage and other manufacturers? Nobody wants to answer the question.



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-lawsuit-is-latest-claim-against-remington/

Well...Ok I'll help you with that:

Maybe nobody wants to answer a Dumb-Ass that seems intent on fear mongering!

hmmm. if there is a real 'problem' why is almost every working LEO sniper rifle in the U.S., and a bunch in the military, a M700?

but to answer your question, seems CNBC chummed the waters with the "Remington Under Fire" reports and bottom feeders come from the depths...like the 'shot in the foot' guy in your link.

Because their triggers work and there are no internal mystery documents stating they don't?

Yep, class actions aren't easy to get certified and product liability is usually an expensive, uphill battle. Big companies spend big bucks to keep the lid on such things.

So, where a class action is progressing and picking up steam, there has to be fuel to stoke the fire. Otherwise, those type cases risk a burn out...

I would never send a M-700 to Remington to fix a trigger. It's a lot less trouble to replace the factory trigger with a good aftermarket one, like a Timney. Then, you know what you got, done deal, settled...

IMO.

DF

"Smoke".

When the trigger's designer says.."You might have a problem under some conditions..." (paraphrased by me),and offers a solution to fix it....and top brass ignores it for several decades,that's "smoke".


http://www.cnbc.com/id/100588488#.

So are we to assume that "snipers" use factory Remmie triggers?