Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns One shot stops.....

I just remembered that I've seen and handled the ultimate, might even say uber, safariman carry piece. We sold a bunch of guns for a widow a few years ago and in the bunch was a SS derringer chambered for .223. Just imagine the hydrostatical badassery you could unleash with that baby.

i listened to that interview with the chicago cop. His first shooting taking 15rounds and not dieing until ten days later.
And that included six out of a model 25 smith in .45colt.
He did say it, but i find that somewhat hard to believe, seeing the .45colt in action.

He never said what was hit, or where.

Yes he did. He said all rounds from the .45 LC to the chest and five more from a J-frame S&W .38 Spcl were between the shoulder blades.

Him full of schit.

The old time gunsmith P.O. Ackley did some interesting tests and became an advocate of small caliber, light weight bullet, and extreme speed for critters. He wrote about his tests in the forepart of one of his publications Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders. It is out of print and does fetch some $$ to acquire the two volume set.

As you probably already know his formula the Ackley improved everything rifle cartridges but was fond of his .17 Javelina.

How many of those Ackley Wildcats topped out at 2000fps?

Can I AI a 25 ACP?

I encourage you too. Push it to 2000fps and become a ninja assassin.

The ultimate in mouse gun pocket pistol badassery.

A Kimber Montana in 7mm Mag will kill more surely and faster than any handgun made. I purposely exclude the hand-rifles like the Thompson Contender or Encore. Those are not handguns.

Generally Patrol Officers aren't far from their patrol cars, where if policy allows, 90% will have some form of an AR. Almost ALL have a Remington 870.

Brazos County, TX Pct. 1 Constable Brian Bachman, a good friend of mine, was killed in the line of duty on August 13, 2012. Back up arrived quickly, and retreated quickly as the murderer continued to fire on civilians and police alike with the rifle he killed Constable Bachman with, a 30-06. I don't know whether it made the news or not, but as the back up units began arriving, they advanced on the house, side arms drawn. The murderer fired on them and wounded two other College Station Police Officers. They began using their Glock 23s for suppressive fire so they could get back to their cars for cover, and to retrieve shotguns. Eventually the murderer was killed at the scene.

That is an example of what I refer to when I say use your handgun to fight back to your rifle.

I'm well aware that the gunfight that killed Brian was atypical. As has been noted most gunfights are settled with handguns and usually with the white hats winning. However, you can bet your last dollar that after the first responding officers were injured by gunfire the remaining responding units to that gunfight that killed Brian deployed a shotgun or rifle upon arrival at the scene if they had one in their patrol unit.

I am on my third set of those two volume sets....

Completely wore out two sets of the paperback version, bought a hardback version in the classifieds here a few years ago and am taking better care of it than I did the paperback books and hoping to be able to hand these down someday.

Great reading, especially the military tests of various projectiles in anesthetized and specifically set up and placed animals. Pigs and goats mostly, IIRC.

It is from those pages and the writings of Roy Weatherby and Warren Page that I developed my affinity for wildcats and high speed projectiles.

Fu cking uber, man..

Yeah, that's the exact example I gave. But it has nothing to do with non-LE pistol carry or really even the idea of fighting back to your pistol. They chose to fight their way into a gunfight and then back out with a pistol, not really an apples to apples comparison, since they could've just carried their rifles in with them to begin with.

I'd even propose that wasn't a self-defense situation. When you go running toward gunfire to kill someone, that's pretty offensive. But that's just semantics I guess.

well...I scanned through most of this thread.

The law of hydraulics says that with an incompressible fluid, every part of the system sees the same pressure. That's how a hydraulic jack works. You apply 50 lbs of pressure on a piston with 1/2 sq in of area, creating 100 psi pressure. The hydraulic ram that it's connected to has 20 sq inches of area, so your effort is magnified, and your jack can lift 2000 lbs.

The problem with "hydraulic shock" is that tissue is not an incompressible fluid; it dissipates pressure waves.

We want the bad guy to not complete the act he was shot for attempting. A CNS hit is a guaranteed stop, but hard to do reliably. One shot stops do occur with pistol rounds, if the bad guy is hit hard enough & well enough to shut off his aggression. Maybe the huge muzzle blast of the .357 mag added a psychological impact, which might explain why it was revered as a fight stopper for so many years.

I had a buddy in college who was a fur hunter. He was constantly searching for the perfect round that would decisively kill critters but not exit and tear up hides. When the .17 Remington came along he bought one, then sold it after he had to shoot a bobcat 4 times, all at less than 100 yards.

If little bullets and high speed expand and penetrate straight, they can do great damage, and if they hit bone there will certainly be secondary missiles. But if they don't expand, they don't do much.

The .22 TCM would be fun to play with, but I'll pass on it, and the FN5.7 as serious defensive weapons.

tex n cal,

Thank you sir for a reasoned and on track addition to this thread.

I am not going to put any eggs in the fast CF 22 pistol for defense basket yet, either.

I was, and am, hoping and looking for some field reports to come back as well as some adult, reasoned conversation. To you and other who added such to this thread, many thanks.

I may try to get my hands on a 22TCM to play with sometime this summer, and begin using it on various game and non game animals as the opportunity presents ittself, but until I hear and see some concrete evidence regarding these two rounds effectiveness I will stay with my combination of a fairly large well constructed hollow point bullet pushed as fast as I can safely push it in an easy to carry and conceal package. So far for me this means my 10mm 1911 but I plan to continue to try to learn and adapt to or adopt a proven winner as more information is added to our base of collective knowledge.

I don't want to still be throwing rocks after the spear, atlatl or bow and arrow have been invented and proven

Some mis read my thread here as my suggesting that the fast 22's are the cat's meow. I do not recall expressing or taking that position. If it looks like I did or was to some then my communication was lacking there. I only wished to begin a conversation as to whether they are viable or perhaps even superior to what we have all been using the last 100 or so years. And to find out if there was yet any kind of field results in that we could all consider.

BS, I have put moose on the ground with a 475L with one shot as fast as any rifle.

Yeah, at 4000+ FPS.

I too read those two volumes about 20 years ago and departed down the dark path of the small caliber, high velocity and light bullet path and have never gone back.

There just is something about shooting stuff at the upper end velocity wise whether it be rifle or handgun that is soul satisfying.

I'll was not aware that his handbooks were in hard back. I'm also a hard back book collector and will now look into that, thanks.