Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters AccuBonds vs. A-Frames in Africa............

I suspect the unbonded Accubonds getting out of the shop may turn out to be something like illlegal alien labor, or maybe non hunter labor who just don't relate to the importance of it.

I suspect the accubond isnt even on the same page as partitions and a frames. Let's just get real, Nosler got outclassed by Swift with the Scirocco, and the ballistic tip was the reason. They responded with the AB and a boat load of Seconds, I found pretty amusing, they had an unlimited supply of 2nds when the danged thing first hit the market. Come on, sales and marketing 101, we bought the name, Nosler, and that's all it was. Frankly, it really doesnt surprize me at all, I can't believe so many others don't understand what took place. Unlimited 2nd's, hum...........on intro, mind you.

Yup...

Factory seconds are those with cosmetic deficiencies, while substantively defective bullets are destroyed. I would expect to see a large number of seconds (and also destroyed bullets) as a factory sets up its manufacturing stages and learns what has to be done differently from other products in its line.

Still, there are certainly unanswered questions with the reported recent failures, though I don't think it's enough to condemn the whole line of bullets. Finding the cause of the problem is likely to be more difficult than we might expect in Nosler's current environment, however.

From a tour there last week, I learned the production line is working 24 hours/ five days. The only engineers I met were tasked to recondition and upgrade the used, but newly-purchased, screw presses to expand the plant capacity. If there are no other production engineers available to review the samples, then the review won't be as complete as otherwise possible. Their tasking is subject to what priority Nosler management assigns the issue.

Jaywalker

I've got a lot of questions about these failures myself. I'm now scheduled to be in Bend after 9/23, so maybe I'll get some of them answered at that time.

I know this much:

I've bought my first box of Nosler Partitions over 25 years ago, and I got into them after I had Sierra and Speer bullets blow-up on mule deer, and after reading about Jack O'Connor's and Bob Hagel's positive experiences with Partitions. I've hunted extensively with them (off and on) ever since, particularly in the 270 Win., 300 Win., and 338 Win.

To date, I have never, EVER had a Nosler Partition fail in any way, or not perform according to script, often exceeding my fondest expectations in terms of accuracy as well as terminal performance. I've not had a failure with the Partition in some 25 years........ yet, on the very first hunt I use them on, the AccuBond failed miserably.

I don't believe in coincidences; I never have and I never will, especially when trusted friends who I've know for years have also reported similar failures.

I've even heard one report that someone in the industry has made the comment that the 225 gr. AB will sure-'nough "out-penetrate" the 250 gr. Partition. Now, I find that outlandish claim (if true) to be very, very hard to swallow, especially considering what my experiences on game have been with both bullets. I do intend to take my 250 gr. Partition handloads to Bend as well, on the off-chance that we'll get to test them side-by-side with the ABs. At least with my rifle, side-by-side accuracy tests with both loads will be a wash, since both bullets will shoot under .500" on a good day, if I'm holding my mouth right..............

AD

Allen, I was told flat out by Nosler tech's that the Accubond was designed to perform like a partition. Twice. And I dug deep on the subject with them. I even mentioned the Scirocco, the likes of which I've known failed to penetrate the rib cage of a shoulder shot bull Moose. They assured me that their bullet would never do such a thing, and once again would act "like" a partition. I'm not sure what "like" means in Oregon (maybe you'll know <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), but it must mean something different than it does here. Do you think the Accubond acts "like" a partition? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Chuck

Allen,

Sorry I missed you in Bend.

I doubt you need my advice on handling corporations, but I'd try hard to get management buy-in on this as a serious problem that needs engineering review and support. Even at best (!) case - a bad lot of bullets - something in the system failed, suppliers, process, whatever. At worst - bad design - would certainly need engineering review. Maybe Kyle Hopp can help you get this the attention it deserves.

Jaywalker

I've been to Africa exactly once, this year-- which makes me an absolute novice. However, I do try to learn whatever I can from native S. African PH's with (in this case) more than 14 years experience each.

Reasonably heavy for caliber A-Frames, Nosler Partitions, and TBBC's along with Barnes TSX's seem to be universally embraced, at reasonable velocities with reasonable shot placement.

I guess I found their experiences to be "quite reasonable." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Still true today. I've had Accubonds fail on me again this season (after wrongly hearing that they've been improved upon! ha!) on a hunt in Namibia for Kudu and Mountain Zebra. Nosler really needs to just make their ABs more like NorthFork bullets with a tip in construction.

What bullet, round/MV, impact speed/distance, animal and shot placement and angle?

Ive used Accubonds in a variety of calibers & bullet weights in North America and Africa. I've used them on a fairly significant amount of game from Springbok to Eland. They have NEVER failed to perform exactly as advertized. The Accubond is my go to bullet for all big game hunting except for dangerous game. When hunting dangerous game Partition, TSX, & Northfork for me. 163bc

John,
thank you for reporting to us mere mortals who can't seem to line up a small trailer load of game animals to use as test media before a big hunt, a way to measure with a repeatable process how a bullet works.
It just also happens to be one fine use for the new york times. Im sure glad my neighbors still take the paper gray lady and even stack it in the paper grocery bags for use as a bullet catcher.....

You don't need to worry at all about any of this stuff. Just shoot a Partition.

Refreshing to readAllen's stuff on here again.

Now that this thread has been resurrected, I'll provide what I can of "the rest of the story."

I've mentioned on the Campfire a few times that some AccuBonds made after they became very popular were defective, because one guy on the assembly line decided to speed up his job. As a result some AccuBonds didn't bond, and were also very soft. Nosler caught the problem pretty quickly, but some did make it out to hunters.

Maybe Allen got some of those as part of his batch of .338 225's, but when he visited Nosler in Bend (as he mentioned he was about to in this thread) they shot some into Nosler's test media, which they use for day-to-day testing for all their bullets. The batch Allen brought to the plant that day performed exactly like other 225 .338's right off the assembly line, and about like 225 .338 Partitions.

The very next year, 2007, I went to South Africa for a month on a big culling deal. During that month two groups of other U.S. hunters came and went, and I got to go along with most of them while they hunted. All together 185 animals were taken, and I got to personally witness about 1/3, and took as many notes as possible from the other hunters during evenings.

That was back when both the AccuBond and Barnes TSX were still hot new bullets, and of the two dozen hunters who took part the vast majority used either Accubond's or TSX's, in calibers from .270 up to .375. None of either failed to kill animals hit correctly, and the animals were the typical African range from springbok and impala up through gemsbok, wildbeest, kudu and zebra. There were also one eland and a couple of Cape buffalo, but the buffalo were taken with Trophy Bonded and Swift A-Frame bullets.

The guy who was the star of the deal, however, was a first-time big game hunter, though his mentor (a long-time hunter) was also along. This guy had wanted an all-around big game rifle, so after working his way up through a .22 rimfire and several of his mentor's rifle, bought a .338 Winchester Magnum--and on the safari used 225-grain AccuBonds.

He killed his first dozen animals with one shot each, and they included the typical range from springbok to blue wildebeest, considered one of the toughest of African animals. Then he decided to get fancy, and tried to take a blue wildebeest with a head-shot, because he wanted a rug without any bullet holes. He pulled that one a little, and as a result his rug ended up with several holes.

But it wasn't the bullet's fault, and ALL his 225-grain AccuBonds performed perfectly. And I was right beside him for some of the animals.

Nobody else had any trouble with Accubonds on that trip, either, including one guy I was also standing next to when he shot a blue wildebeest with a 140 from a 7mm-08. The bull ran 50-some yards and piled up dead, with a typical shot tight behind the shoulder. Other animals taken with them were the lone eland (200-grain AB's from a .300 Winchester Magnum), an animals weighing close to a ton, several wildebeest/zebra/gemsbok (about the size of elk) with 160 AccuBonds from a 7mm Dakota, and 260 Accubond's from a .375 H&H. NONE of the bullets came apart or failed to penetrate sufficiently, and only a few were recovered.

I had taken a few animals with AccuBonds before that trip, with no problems, and afterward used them quite a bit more, partly because I also used AccuBonds in one of my rifles on the safari, 250's at about 2650 fps from my 9.3x62. Used them to not only take "deer-sized" animals such as springbok and blesbok out to over 300 yards, but gemsbok and my biggest kudu ever. Only one stayed inside an animal, from a frontal shot on a gemsbok, though it penetrated on into the intestines and was never found.

From that I had enough confidence to use the 250 9.3 on my only grizzly bear two years later. Shot it twice, once broadside just behind one shoulder and out the other, and then angling away as it whirled and ran. Recovered the second bullet, which hit the rear right right ribs and was found under skin of the neck on the left side, retaining over 80% of its weight. (And yes, Nosler does construct bigger AB's to retain more weight, just like it does Partitions.)

Recovered another AccuBond just a few weeks ago, when I shot a doe whitetail as it faced me. The rifle was a .308 Winchester and muzzle velocity around 2850, the range 70 yards. The bullet broke a shoulder going in and was found when I was slicing round steaks from the hindquarter on the opposite side, retaining around 65% of its weight.

Dunno what happened with Allen's 225 .338 AccuBonds, but have never seen anything like it in over a dozen years of both using them myself, and seeing a bunch of other people take a bunch of other animals in the field.

In the intervening years, I've used quite a few NAB's, all either 165 or 180 30 cal. Results have been stellar. Have also recovered a couple of the 180's from a friends 300 WM on two different cow elk that look like they came from the advertising literature.

I don't think they penetrate quite as much as a Partition, but they're close for sure.

Same results as Brad. Took my largest bull elk to date, a heavy old Idaho 5x6 with the 140 Accubond from my 270 WSM. I had that bullet for a long time, but a couple of Military moves have lost it. It broke both front leg bones and was in the broken up mess on the far side. That was 2005 I think. I kinda judged that bullet a little hard as from what I can remember it weighed about 50% or so from starting weight and looked pretty beat up. I thought it should've blown through but that was before I'd killed or seen a lot of other elk killed with other bullets.

Fast forward to today and I've seen 160 ABs from 7mm's, 165's, 180's and 200's from a few 30 calibers and the 200 and 225 AB from 338's all work great, killing elk fast and usually caught in the hide, if they don't punch thru.

For the majority of my hunting I shoot a Partition or Accubond. Usually whichever shoots best.

I had a bad batch of 30/200's that Mule Deer is talking about and they cost me a bear in the Glacier Peak Wilderness, WA.

Nosler made it right with me and its taking me a few years to gain confidence again in the AB. I'm back to using them.


Worth mentioning again,




Allen Day is still missed here.....one of the very best.

I agree with SU35.


As to gaining confidence in them I don't see the point in bothering when the Partition is already there.

I would take an AB over a BT though.....

Wow, this is a really old post, but is a very good read. Thanks to AD and MD and all for the reports.

I stop using a bullet as soon as I think it has failed, period. It is hard for me to follow advice if the bullet blows up on the ribs for me or if the bullet travels through the animal leaving a pencil size exit wound and requires multiple shots. For example, I used Speer's premium bullet - Grand Slam - the first year it came out and I found it wanting. I heard/read that it got better, but I still have that original box of bullets and have bought no more. I planned on using it on rocks.
Now, I have Nosler Partitions in most calibers from 6mm to 338. I started buying them in the 60's when I had a 264 and didn't find a different bullet that worked like I thought it should. Never ever have Partitions failed. I might be just as happy with A-frames or others of similar build -- H-mantel perhaps, but never see them for sale around here.
I have several boxes of mono bullets, but never trust them enough to use them on game because I don't want/need to experiment when I am confident that the Partitions will always work. I will probably sell them soon, unless the EPA or some other government agency says that we have to use them. As I recall the early results were not perfect with the monos.
The other bullet that I trust for game when under 3,000 fps is the Hornady Interlocks. I've used these bullets faster and they killed like lightning, but the damage was too much for me.
A friend uses a certain brand of bullets that are known for accuracy and rarely known for their hunting bullets, because he can shoot 1/2 MOA groups with them. A couple of years ago, he shot a deer and then again and again, after 6 shots the deer went down and the gore was horrendous. But as he said, "It shoots so accurately, it shoots half the group size as the bullets you prefer." Besides it has a very high BC. -- That deer never made it to 100 yards away, but the bullet did have a high BC. He says that sometimes the deer drop like the hammer of Thor hit them and he's satisfied.

I'm glad this old post was resurrected!

I like the Jack Carter bear claws, I used to go in Jacks shop. I enjoyed hearing him talk about bullet performance. He liked the partition as well as his own. I still have a bunch of his bullets.