Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Federal Lands in the West

logging will not prevent fires in the scrub and chapparal communities. Cheat grass and the WUI make it a whole new world out there... Grazing and logging on your now state owned NF lands won't pay for it.

Or like liberals or socialists they think everyone should be and do like they do.

Envy is a evil thing

That article actually makes my point... especially since the people quoted want to just spend more instead of allowing the forests to be cleaned up and produce revenue at the same time.

Sandy Bahr, if she's for it it'll cost you money and a fight for your hunting heritage.

McCain and Flake wanting to throw money at the problem.

Funny...

Kent

The least amount of money is generated by logging and grazing leases. Which has been curtailed to very low levels. Which leave flammable fuels to build up.

Change one parameter and others change by percentage, that percentage can be positive or negative.

Logging reduces fire liability as does grazing, that's a fact, how much depends on how much is allowed.

Kent

There are Millions of acres of National Forest in Wisconsin being underutilized.The greenies will not let The Forest Service sell lumbering rights ,so we have mature hardwoods worth big bucks just rotting.There are less deer and grouse because there is no understory to support them.These are the areas that support huge White tail bucks when forested properly and open to hunting for anyone.Woods trails and roads are closed more every year to make the Sierra Club happy.Our land is being managed for the anti hunters and tree huggers who pay nothing to support it.State control would be far more favorable as the State has a Forest Service program ,that is the envy of many Big Woods States.In the County I live in Marinette, we have about half the land in the County,County owned.County Stewardship is great and our County land is great for Bird and deer hunting.Yes I would much prefer State ownership which pays for itself by bring in Revenue not being utilized now.

You haven't lived until you see a 200 square mile cheatgrass fire. There is no fix for cheat grass other than grazing. Even if grazing is allowed at a loss, it will likely make up for the loss with reduced fire fighting costs.

Excuse me but I live in MA, I have lived the horror of a State being run by idiots...

Unfortunately the issues created can't be fixed overnight, by the feds or the states. But the Forest nazies aren't going to do anything but keep spending more and pushing us off 'their' land.

If the state can have control to better manage and use less federal expenditures, then possibly the beast can be turned around and headed in a positive direction.

Kent

You must be talking about the Davy Crockett National forest. Everything else is a couple of hundred miles northeast of Houston, which is the nearest (real) airport. That is another reason that few people go there.

Pat,

We would essentially be locked out of any hunting soon after the State acquired the open lands. It would be sold off post-haste to big corporations for pennies. Our game is much sparser than in TX and about anywhere else in the USA, due to our being the driest State of all. We have a lot of open lands, but the key habitat is relatively small and concentrated at and near water. Many of those places were homesteaded long ago.

Without the open public lands we become out of State hunters somewhere else.

NV is not known for preserving open lands, and our politicians won't. Evidence Harry Reid and his ilk.

Same is true in Oregon. The liberals would love to have all that federal land for their personal playground, and they would too.

I'm all for private ownership.....PROVIDED it isn't hacked up by Realtors because if so....they'd build a housing project atop Pike's Peak!!

You'll see a sea of 20 acre "ranchetts" as far as the eye can see.

Goodbye open lands...goodbye hunting...goodbye to camping anywhere but government campgrounds all you sheeple.

Kent,

You and I would probably agree on a lot, if we met. I think we have a lot of similar experiences and backgrounds.

Natural Resource Management on public lands is subject to political, as well as management control.

One reason grazing brings in so little, is that grazing rates are set by Congress, which are beholden, in the West, to public land grazers and their supporters.

Logging, in Arizona, is a different cat, than a lot of places.

It might take 40-50 years to grow a tree big enough to harvest. No one can keep a set of roads open, or a sawmill going, on a 50 year rotation. And frankly, a 16 inch tree isn't worth waiting around for. Especially if it is way out in BF Egypt. Then it has to be hauled 50 miles to a small mill, to make a low value product, which then has to be hauled 150 miles to a market.

So the logging of the 80's, that you and I saw in Arizona, was a last gasp, the end of the "mining" of 200 year old trees.

Grazing prevents forest fires....NOT....small fires prevent BIG fires, grazing prevents small fires.

Small fires kill baby trees that create the ladder fuels, that get into the crowns and wipe out 100,000 acre swaths.

I agree that right now, in parts of Arizona, the pendulum has swung to the greens, in other parts it has swung back. In the White Mountains, the mill owners are asking congress to increase the harvest rates, so they can increase their profits, in the name of "jobs and economic development".


That is in a forest that has already lost 500,000 acres (estimate) from giant fires. (1/3 of the forest?) How long can they keep their cut up? 10 years? then what happens to the jobs?

When are the mill owners going to ask for a reduced Harvest for forest health? Never, same as the greenies never asking for an increased harvest in the overstocked parts.

Our job, as citizens and residents, as I see it, is to not jump on somebody elses bandwagon.

YMMV,

Sycamore

Therein lies the problem. As in MA, not public lands in the west.

Where I live in northeastern Calif, there is USFS land, BLM land and private land. Very little state land and some Rez ground. You can tell the private timber land from the FS just by looking at the forest. No comparison, the private forest ground is a hell of a lot healthier and holds more deer and elk. We had a fire just west of me, it burned both public and private. This fire was about 2 years ago. The private ground is cleaned up and replanted, the government ground is a fricken mess. I have a friend that is a forester for the USFS, he just pulls his hair out at the stupid stuff that goes on. He has been working on a timber sale on Lassen Creek, just east of me. Been working on it 3 years, he figures it will be another 3 before they can put it out to bid. Logging on federal ground is almost a thing of the past, thanks to Billy Clinton. They damn sure are trees left. Not sure if state would be any better, at least this state. Ed

I forgot to say that the private timber ground is open to the public to hunt and fish. I assume it will be till some dumbf##k screws that up. Ed

A private tree farm is nothing natural.

RL I wouldn't call it a tree farm, I guess it is cause they do harvest it. Lol the trees aren't planted in rows like they are in the south. These tree farms as you say are thousands of acres with rocks, bluffs, rimrocks, streams, meadows same as the FS land. The only difference is they are a hell of a lot healthier and that they house a hell of a lot more game. The FS is the largest employer in this county, I would venture to say that 20% of the traffic on the county roads are made by the FS or BLM. If they send 5 men out to do something they take 5 pickups. Collins Pine sends their crew in one crewcab. Ed

They don't replant single species, and use herbicides and fertilizers?