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Joined: Dec 2000
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.224 Laser

• Basic Interior-Ballistics Fact — to increase the muzzle velocity of a given bullet from a given length of barrel, use more powder.

• Basic Interior-Ballistics Fact — to decrease the maximum average peak pressure, increase the capacity of the case.

• Basic Interior-Exterior-Ballistics Fact — the longer the powder gas propels the bullet toward the muzzle, the bullet exits at a higher velocity.

• Basic Exterior-Ballistics Fact — bullets with higher ballistic coefficients travel faster at long ranges, with “flatter” trajectories, than bullets with lower ballistic coefficients.

The .224 Laser, a scientifically engineered varmint cartridge, is designed on the basis of combining these fundamental facts of small-arms ballistics — specifically
(a) to propel the 75-grain Hornady A-Max (or similar bullet) to its maximum muzzle velocity,
(b) at or slightly below the maximum average peak pressure of 50,000 pounds per square inch,
(c) with the net capacity of the case filled to 90%–100% (with no excess air space, and the powder never compressed or tamped tight, for the best possible burning).

As results of optimizing these criteria in the design of the .224 Laser, about 56–58 grains of a very slow powder propels the 75-grain Hornady A-Max bullet from a 26-inch barrel at more than 3,400 feet per second, at an average peak pressure of about 50,000 pounds per square inch or slightly less. This bullet, though it exits the muzzle faster than lighter bullets from .220 Swift factory loads, travels faster and faster than the lighter Swift bullets beyond about 200 yards. And of course, since it's up to 50% heavier, it delivers a good bit more energy at every point along its way.

Increasing the maximum average peak pressure to 60,000 or slightly more pounds per square inch produces very little more muzzle velocity. And until bullet-makers make 0.224 bullets with stronger jackets, this is the fastest that this bullet can travel without coming apart just a few feet from the muzzle.

There is, of course, no factory ammo or brass with the head stamp “.224 Laser” — a negligible concern for the dedicated wildcatter. Brass for this wildcat is easily formed from good .25-06 brass (Winchester, Norma, Hornady, Federal, or Nosler, for example) by either of two methods —
• with form dies and loading dies from such makers as RCBS, Hornady, or Redding
or
• with this procedure —
(a) using an 8x57mm Mauser sizing die to swage the outer (lower) ring of the shoulder back to the body-shoulder junction of the .224 Laser
(b) using a 7x57mm Mauser sizing die backed-off about an eighth of an inch to swage the inner (upper) shoulder back far enough for the .224 Laser sizing die to complete the conversion. (Once the dimension of this back-off is determined, a precise spacer may be a big help for ease and consistency if resetting the lock ring on the 7x57mm sizer is undesirable for some reason.)
(c) then full-length forming the case in the .224 Laser sizing die
— then trimming the case to 2.400 inches long, reaming (or turning) the neck, and chamfering the mouth, as necessary.

The resulting neck will be formed from a lower part of the original .25-06 case, which is slightly harder and slightly thicker than the .25-06 neck, so it's probably wise to anneal the neck and shoulder before re-forming the case by either of the above methods. Can't hurt.

Varmint-shooters can have their barrels chambered and fitted by
• Greg Cameron in Sierra Vista, Arizona (he has the original .224 Laser tooling),
or by
• any other qualified rifle-maker who has or can get the .224 Laser reamers and headspace gauges

The designer's detailed specification drawing (for ordering reamers and gauges) is available free of charge, for a self-addressed postage-paid business envelope, from Ken Howell, Box 28, Quemado, NM 87829.

GB4

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Sounds UBER!




Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 29,348
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Forgot to mention frown

Any twist faster than 9:1 spins the bullet too fast — it blows apart in a gray puff just a few feet from the muzzle.


"Good enough" isn't.

Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.



















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What speed does that occur? 3,400fps?



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,703
J
Campfire Regular
Online Content
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J
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,703
Originally Posted by Ken Howell
.224 Laser

• Basic Interior-Ballistics Fact — to increase the muzzle velocity of a given bullet from a given length of barrel, use more powder.

• Basic Interior-Ballistics Fact — to decrease the maximum average peak pressure, increase the capacity of the case.

• Basic Interior-Exterior-Ballistics Fact — the longer the powder gas propels the bullet toward the muzzle, the bullet exits at a higher velocity.

• Basic Exterior-Ballistics Fact — bullets with higher ballistic coefficients travel faster at long ranges, with “flatter” trajectories, than bullets with lower ballistic coefficients.

The .224 Laser, a scientifically engineered varmint cartridge, is designed on the basis of combining these fundamental facts of small-arms ballistics — specifically
(a) to propel the 75-grain Hornady A-Max (or similar bullet) to its maximum muzzle velocity,
(b) at or slightly below the maximum average peak pressure of 50,000 pounds per square inch,
(c) with the net capacity of the case filled to 90%–100% (with no excess air space, and the powder never compressed or tamped tight, for the best possible burning).

As results of optimizing these criteria in the design of the .224 Laser, about 56–58 grains of a very slow powder propels the 75-grain Hornady A-Max bullet from a 26-inch barrel at more than 3,400 feet per second, at an average peak pressure of about 50,000 pounds per square inch or slightly less. This bullet, though it exits the muzzle faster than lighter bullets from .220 Swift factory loads, travels faster and faster than the lighter Swift bullets beyond about 200 yards. And of course, since it's up to 50% heavier, it delivers a good bit more energy at every point along its way.

Increasing the maximum average peak pressure to 60,000 or slightly more pounds per square inch produces very little more muzzle velocity. And until bullet-makers make 0.224 bullets with stronger jackets, this is the fastest that this bullet can travel without coming apart just a few feet from the muzzle.

There is, of course, no factory ammo or brass with the head stamp “.224 Laser” — a negligible concern for the dedicated wildcatter. Brass for this wildcat is easily formed from good .25-06 brass (Winchester, Norma, Hornady, Federal, or Nosler, for example) by either of two methods —
• with form dies and loading dies from such makers as RCBS, Hornady, or Redding
or
• with this procedure —
(a) using an 8x57mm Mauser sizing die to swage the outer (lower) ring of the shoulder back to the body-shoulder junction of the .224 Laser
(b) using a 7x57mm Mauser sizing die backed-off about an eighth of an inch to swage the inner (upper) shoulder back far enough for the .224 Laser sizing die to complete the conversion. (Once the dimension of this back-off is determined, a precise spacer may be a big help for ease and consistency if resetting the lock ring on the 7x57mm sizer is undesirable for some reason.)
(c) then full-length forming the case in the .224 Laser sizing die
— then trimming the case to 2.400 inches long, reaming (or turning) the neck, and chamfering the mouth, as necessary.

The resulting neck will be formed from a lower part of the original .25-06 case, which is slightly harder and slightly thicker than the .25-06 neck, so it's probably wise to anneal the neck and shoulder before re-forming the case by either of the above methods. Can't hurt.

Varmint-shooters can have their barrels chambered and fitted by
• Greg Cameron in Sierra Vista, Arizona (he has the original .224 Laser tooling),
or by
• any other qualified rifle-maker who has or can get the .224 Laser reamers and headspace gauges

The designer's detailed specification drawing (for ordering reamers and gauges) is available free of charge, for a self-addressed postage-paid business envelope, from Ken Howell, Box 28, Quemado, NM 87829.
Well,we got the answer,but who asked the question?

IC B2

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Posts: 32,196
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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.50 BMG for shooting terrorist vamints.

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I have a Rem 700 with a Hart bbl in 22.250 Ack. Imp. / 1 in 8 twist.

Weighs 32# !!

[Linked Image]

And it shoots....

3 shots/100yd...

[Linked Image]



Had the 75's up to 3673 fps, but was more accurate at +/- 3400 fps.

At 3400 I was getting some grey clouds at about 50 yards (about 30%).
I called Hornady and they said "Keep 'em at or close to 3000 fps".

I did, and it worked out well for me, with final load @ avg 3113 fps..

I also have shot Bergers in it, up to 80 gr.
The 75 gr Bergers worked best for me, but the Hornady's weren't far behind.

I talked to Sierra about using their 80's. Their load was also just over 3000 at 3163 fps.

Gun works great, FIRST woodchuck I shot with it was just a hair over 725 yds. FUN !!


Old Fishermen never die, we just get reel tired.

May you build a ladder to the stars
and climb on every rung.
May you stay......Forever young
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Campfire Ranger
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2 shots from my 222 mag has a combined velocity of nearly 8,000 fps. No centerfire will outdo that...


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
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Just no winnin' against them thar Magnums cry


Old Fishermen never die, we just get reel tired.

May you build a ladder to the stars
and climb on every rung.
May you stay......Forever young
Joined: Jun 2005
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O
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220 Weatherby Rocket looks close to this case...Yes?


One man with courage makes a majority....

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
IC B3

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I shoot a 1-8" twist 220 Swift. My coyote load is a 69 grain Sierra, either MK or TMK at 3300. I love it, works great. I have tried the 75 Berger too, and they work well. I just picked up the 75 AMAX this weekend to try too. They better go over 3000 or I will be very disappointed though. Even the Berger 64 Varmint would make it up to about 3200+ before they started coming apart, AMAX should do better than that IMO.

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I run them @ 3,300fps all the time. 8-T.




Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 665
J
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J
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I thought so. I hear of lots of people running them 3400+, that's why I bought them. Should be good coyote medicine. The SMK is so dang accurate in my rifle though I have a hard time making myself try other things. Good problem to have.

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I put 1,500 to 2,000 75 gr amax out of a 22-250ai at 3350 out of a 1 in 8 twist barrel. Never had one blow up midair that I was aware of.


MAGA
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This sounds like my .224 MBOC. It has a 9" twist by doesn't like 75 grain A-Maxes for which it was built. It loves Nosler 55 grainers @ 4,000 feet per second; which is 200 feet from maximum, but this is where the accuracy came in.

[Linked Image]


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
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Sitting here looking at my .220HLaser - it did great the first time out - need to get it going again.


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Sounds like the 220 Howell.


Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Originally Posted by JTPinTX
I thought so. I hear of lots of people running them 3400+, that's why I bought them. Should be good coyote medicine. The SMK is so dang accurate in my rifle though I have a hard time making myself try other things. Good problem to have.


I'd sacrifice some accuracy in trade for the Gay-Max.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,430
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Yeah, Ken,
You did the Howell -- how fast does the 220 H push 75s?


Up hills slow,
Down hills fast
Tonnage first and
Safety last.
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I'm running the 75 Amax out of a 22/243 Win, 26 1/2" Shilen with a .250 neck at 3550 fps. I have run em up to 3650 but it opened up, at 3550 it shoots in the mid .2s. Have shot crows from 100-450 and yotes to 700 and they do impressive things to varmints at that speed .


"I can't be over gunned because the animal can't be over dead"-Elmer Keith
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