"I would rather shoot prairie dogs all day with a 30-06 than bear hunt with a 223."
I've shot quite a few prairie dogs with my 30-06. When I was a kid it was either that or a 22 long rifle...Using it on prairie dogs taught me a lot about field shooting and made me pretty familiar with that rifle and cartridge. I now have several other rifles but my '06 is still my favorite. I would be hard pressed, though, to say it is better or more capable than a 308, 270 or 280.
I suspect had I inherited a 270 from my father rather than a 30-06, the 270 would be my favorite...funny the things that endear rifles to us...
Good stuff. Mackey - don't you shoot a Springfield short?
To the point on longevity n history, it is not by chance the 06 has downed so much game, yet part of the fact surely is a matter of how many of them are used afield.
My use was mostly w a Ruger laminate w hard pad. As well as a buddy's FN w same. Both using top loads in 165gr.
Yes various loads are had in light bullets for loaders and reduced factory. Yet I pose the question for factory ammo. Having driven a .277 150 PT neck to ham on a Mulie I cannot imagine it not busting bone. I also ran ballistic tips often in 150. I know the 140 fail safe loads were said to also dump elk readily.
Thank for sharing your experience.
65BR,
It appears that the whole point of this thread was to reassure yourself that your personal choice of the 270 cartridge is a better choice as an all-around cartridge because the 30-06 is just a little bit too much of a good thing, and the hard pads on those two 30-06 rifles hurt you a little too much.
Well, rest assured, the 270 is a fine all-around cartridge and you can be happy with it for the rest of your days. The 270, as well as several other cartridges can do a thing or two slightly better than the 30-06, and in a dozen other areas your 270 will do almost as well as the 30-06.
The animals won't be able to tell the difference, and if you put a good pad on a 30-06 with a stock that fits well, you won't be able to tell the difference, either.
Nifty-250
"If you don't know where you're going, you may wind up somewhere else". Yogi Berra
I don't think anybody can say the 30-06 is too much gun.
Yeah. I can...
And not for any particular game animal, but for many circumstances where critters are shot the 30-06 is simply too much rifle. Flat land where the rural roads are laid out in township grids, and a school bus or feed and seed truck can pass by anytime call for a rifle that has easily frangible bullets.
There simply is no reliably frangible bullet available in .308 diameter.
Thus my decades long affair with the .243, and more lately the 25-06.
We can't be serious? Are we?
Pretty sure the 243 and 25-06 have hunting bullets that are not frangible.
Doesn't Horny Daddy have a 110 V-Max that is frangible? There, now go use a 30-06. No excuse that it is not "factory loaded".
Talking to you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
True that loading the lighter weight bullets Cuts down on recoil
But it also cuts down on performance as Ballistic coeficient and Sectional density go way down .
That's where the versatility of having many different bullets to choose from comes in.
Besides light bullets, you can shoot heavies. Remember, the subject is the chambering, not the bullet.
Remember that I quoted You . You said the recoil was cut way down using the lighter bullets. Then when reminded that such bullets are not very efficient you remind me of the subject ?
You tried to make a point that the Chambering(30-06)kicked less with the lighter bullets then when I mentioned that they were not very efficient you now want to mix words and not talk about them. When talking about the chambering and op question the bullets are part of the equation. Thats some funny chit !
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
Its not legal in Alaska to hunt Bison with a rifle with performance under 30/06 with bullets 200 grains benchmark.
This isn't shooting a bison on a farm from a fence post but fighting through brush and swamps in close proximity.
There is a story about how a Pipeline 798er tried to engage a bison with a 270 Weatherby and ended up wounding the bison bull which tried to exact revenge. It chased him through the brush for more than 50 minutes before it lost interest.
I am taking my 338 Nosler 48 TGR for my bison hunt this October. My iron sighted 458 Win Whitworth will go along as a camp rifle. Sincerely, Thomas
Just a few thoughts on .30-06, light bullets and efficiency....
It is true that light bullets reduce recoil. It is also true that they have lower sectional density and ballistic coefficients. All of which is meaningless unless given some decisional parameters.
Frankly, the idea of a .22 Accelerator load in a .30-06 has always intrigued me. For light varminting of just plain fun, what is wrong with a 55g V-MAX cranking along at 4200fps MV? In a standard weight .30-06 that is about 11.5 ft-lbs recoil and MPBR zeroed for a 6" diameter target, the bullet is down only about 5.5" at 400 yards. At 300 yards retained velocity and energy are in the neighborhood of 2942fps and 1057fpe. Compare that to 150g Winchester .30-30 ammo that runs closer to 1400fps and 651fpe at that range. Granted that accuracy may suffer, accelerators still sound like a lot of fun. Great elk load? Probably not, but who cares?
Don't like Accelerators? How about a 110g Hornady V-MAX or Barnes TAC-TX at 3400fps? Should be good for up to deer-sized game to about 400 yards where a 6" MPBR results in a drop of about 12" with retention in the neighborhood of 2175fps and 1150fpe. And with recoil under 15 ft-lbs. Sounds to me like a good pair of loads with lots of practical uses, including light varminting, antelope and deer.
Hunting elk? Bump it up to a 130g or 150g TTSX at 3200fps and 3000fps respectively. Feeling undergunned? Why, when you're basically talking the same velocity and energy at 400 yards as a .30-30 delivers at 50?
Low efficiency? As defined by and compared to what, exactly - and even then, who cares? The last thing I worry about when buying factory ammo is "efficiency". As a handloader, I judge a load by its accuracy more than anything else. An increase in "efficiency" might mean more loads per pound of powder but that is only important to me when I'm building plinking loads - and lots of them. For example, 13.5g HS-6 under a 300g or 350g hardcast bullet makes for a fine and inexpensive .45-70 plinking load. "Efficiency" matters not at all for my hunting loads.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A long while back I shot about a 150 pound hog through the lungs with my .270 at around 50 yards. It dropped on the spot and I found the 130gr. Power Point nicely mushroomed against the off side hide.
For some reason I got the idea in my head that the bullet should have exited and made me start thinking I should limber up dads old .30-06 for more power on hogs.
The first hog I shot with it was about the same size and distance as the previously mentioned hog. Once again the hog dropped at the shot but this time I found a mushroomed .30cal 180gr. Power Point against the off side hide.
Its not legal in Alaska to hunt Bison with a rifle with performance under 30/06 with bullets 200 grains benchmark.
Just exactly how many hunters actually hunt bison. Or coastal brown bear. No one is saying the 30-06 doesn't work on those animals. Just that for at least 99% of us, if we are really honest with ourselves, we'll never need the power. And if we do need more power than rounds like 308, 7-08, 270 etc., then a 30-06 is only marginally better and we'd really be much better off with something a LOT bigger than 30-06.
I hunted with a 30-06 exclusively for almost 40 years, you'll never hear me say a bad thing about the round. But lately I've found a 308 just to work better for me, and I consider it to be bigger than really needed most of the time.
I'm shooting the same bullets 100-150 fps slower. (And modern 308 loads are 100-200 fps faster than 30-06 loads from the 1920's.) I figure all that does is force me to get 50-100 yards closer. And the 308 is still got enough pop to work on anything I'll ever hunt out to 300 yards. That is as far as I can shoot consistently anyway.
For giving up that 100-150 fps I get about 20-25% less recoil from rifles of the same weight. Or, I can carry my Kimber which is 1.5 lbs lighter and get about the same recoil as the heavier 30-06.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Just a few thoughts on .30-06, light bullets and efficiency....
It is true that light bullets reduce recoil. It is also true that they have lower sectional density and ballistic coefficients. All of which is meaningless unless given some decisional parameters.
Frankly, the idea of a .22 Accelerator load in a .30-06 has always intrigued me. For light varminting of just plain fun, what is wrong with a 55g V-MAX cranking along at 4200fps MV? In a standard weight .30-06 that is about 11.5 ft-lbs recoil and MPBR zeroed for a 6" diameter target, the bullet is down only about 5.5" at 400 yards. At 300 yards retained velocity and energy are in the neighborhood of 2942fps and 1057fpe. Compare that to 150g Winchester .30-30 ammo that runs closer to 1400fps and 651fpe at that range. Granted that accuracy may suffer, accelerators still sound like a lot of fun. Great elk load? Probably not, but who cares?
Don't like Accelerators? How about a 110g Hornady V-MAX or Barnes TAC-TX at 3400fps? Should be good for up to deer-sized game to about 400 yards where a 6" MPBR results in a drop of about 12" with retention in the neighborhood of 2175fps and 1150fpe. And with recoil under 15 ft-lbs. Sounds to me like a good pair of loads with lots of practical uses, including light varminting, antelope and deer.
Hunting elk? Bump it up to a 130g or 150g TTSX at 3200fps and 3000fps respectively. Feeling undergunned? Why, when you're basically talking the same velocity and energy at 400 yards as a .30-30 delivers at 50?
Low efficiency? As defined by and compared to what, exactly - and even then, who cares? The last thing I worry about when buying factory ammo is "efficiency". As a handloader, I judge a load by its accuracy more than anything else. An increase in "efficiency" might mean more loads per pound of powder but that is only important to me when I'm building plinking loads - and lots of them. For example, 13.5g HS-6 under a 300g or 350g hardcast bullet makes for a fine and inexpensive .45-70 plinking load. "Efficiency" matters not at all for my hunting loads.
Who cares? Well the Op does, I suppose that is why he asked the question. I dont really think the OP was talking about Varminting when he mentioned Nort American Game . And the effeciency I speak is not neccasarily getting the most rounds per pound . As far as big game goes anything in the lighter weighs in the 06 does can be accomplished using the 270 with lighter bullets. Apples to apples of course for comparisons. And not apples to oranges. Efficiency may not concern you , and I personally see where you are coming from however considering the op question I contend that effeciency plays a huge part in answering the question.
65BR Offline Campfire 'Bwana
Registered: 02/22/07 Posts: 12412 Loc: NW Louisiana For North American game excluding big bears.
Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?
What say you?
I say as much as I like the 30-06 there are smaller less recoiling calibers that will do the job. Which is by any rational exactly what the op asked. I like the 06 and as I have said have killed more deer with the cartridge than any others BUT I just like the 270 Better ! Less recoil,less wind drift etc. And still does the job an 06 will do on the game mentioned.
A lot of people are suggesting the 270 as a lesser kicking relative. I can't really tell that a 270 kicks less, feels about the same to me. 243, 7x57, sure yeah, kicks less but a 270, I can't tell any difference.
Yes, the old '06 is too much gun. Not much too much.....just a little more ruckus than we really need.
It's a relic of those grand old times before the improved bullet construction of today. A natural evolution happened as bullet construction got better and better.
We went from the 45-70 to the .400 Whelen to the .35 Whelen and the 30-06........now we have the .270 Winchester.
The '06 is dead, it just doesn't know it.
The .270 can do everything better.
Where do we go from here? Who knows?
The Tea Party Movement is pretty much the same as a bowel movement except that it smells worse and has far less in the way of intelligent content. --DancesWithGuns
So you could neck it up to 30 cal and have a 30-7-08?
If the thread asked...is a 270 too much...a 308 too much...the answer for all of them would be the same as this thread. No, not too much. Kills [bleep]. Yes, too much recoil or burns too much powder, too long a bolt throw, whatever.
Seriously, rifles shoot bullets. When bullets at high velocity destroy tissue, make hearts stop working or lungs stop being inflated or stop blood flow to the brain or spinal column animals die. I have killed hogs with knives, beef cattle with hammers, animals with bullets or arrows...amazingly they all work.
I love the 30-06, but it isn't special. But it is all around a great compromise of recoil, energy, ballistic coefficient, velocity, and bullet performance.
