Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 7mm-08 moose bullet

I'm pretty sure he shot the moose with a 160grn Northfork, unless there were more than one that he's shot with a 7X57.

A TIC understatement without a doubt…which sure beats guessing as so many seem to do on threads such as this.

It always amazes me how many people will get on a thread and opine based on no experience, very thin experience, uninformed extrapolation, or hearsay/theysay. It almost makes me want to just say, "use a 22 mag" since "I know a friend who did it", or "use a Ruger MK 1 22 pistol" since "I know another guy who 'I've heard' did it". And, of course, I've seen them die by 223 before Barnes even made 22 caliber X bullets.

Just go to Africa and tip a few Cape Buff over with your 300 mag and Core-lokts and be done with it already.

A light cup and core is a good bullet; it just isn't a good bullet for animals with the mass and bone structure of a moose. That's not saying it can't work, but why recommend a 'tool' which is so limiting? Killing them should be the easy part…so you can get to work on the hard part. Making the 'easy part' more challenging just before you take on the hard work just doesn't make any sense to me.

I vote 160gr Partition @ 2750. powdr

I know enough guys that have killed moose with traditional archery equipment, I myself I have done it. Hope to get it done this year again.

There is no fricken way either of the above bullets will not work, unless they are improperly placed.

I have killed a truck load of big game with the 7-08 including quite a few elk. My go-to bullet is the 154 Hornady spire point interlock. It is cheap, accurate and very effective. It is a very dependable bullet and will certainly penetrate adequately from a 7-08. I also had good luck with the 150 Partition but no better than the Hornady at half the price.

Unlike many posting responses here about shooting deer and other even hypothesizing, I have killed big bull elk with this load and have used this rifle as the elk hunting loaner rifle where it has taken even more. No complaints at all.

250 Grand Slam, 340 Wtby, 3000 fps muzzle, <200 yards: both shoulders/ no major bones.

225 XFB, 340 Wtby, 2850 fps muzzle, <200 yards; both shoulders, major bones both side.

170 Core-lokt, 30-30 Win, 2100 fps muzzle, <90 yards: shoulder muscles.

160 Fail-Safe, 7mm-08, 2500 fps, Est 275 yards: high shoulder/neck; stopped against vertebra.

200 NBT, 340 Wtby, 3000 fps muzzle, <200 yards: near shoulder muscles; stopped in offside ribs (along with two more just like it.)

All of these animals (mature bull moose) presented near perfectly classic broadsides.

Your post suggests that the 7mm-08 is an adequate choice.





P

Can someone explain to me the actual science of twist affecting "killing power". I've never heard of this before. Sounds fishy.

For stabilization/accuracy of the bullet yes. Speed and bullet weight for killing yes. But twist????

Adequate? Absolutely! It also might suggest that moose can readily absorb a pretty good punch and are deserving of tough bullets, especially in a lighter caliber like the little 7.

(The XFB tipped the animal over on impact since it broke big bones in both shoulders which obviously took his pins out. The rest of the bullets were each one of three or four bullets that the respective animals took while on their feet.)

Only that the denser the medium (in most cases, sea level air vs mountain air) the more stabilizing that is required. I don't think you can spin it fast enough to make it track perfect in meat. Some claim there is a "buzz-saw effect". I have no opinion on that one.

Ah, so many moose droppings here.....it's hard to keep track of them.

Thanks guys. Nice discussion. I suppose I was more interested in opinions on the Hornady. I just scored a sweet deal on a couple hundred and they shoot so nice I was just wondering how'd they do on a moose. I already have a great sub moa 140 TTSX load @ 2860 fps but those spire points shoot just as good. I'm a big Barnes fan though and IMHO the 3rd post on this thread pretty much sums it up.

Finally caught a TTSX in last year's moose....

Love that field photo, and nice looking moose. If I wasn't so attached to B.C. I would move to Manitoba, my sister lives there and I have really enjoyed my visits there.

I'm not sure there is any actual science to it. Some folks running fast twist rates have noted that the rifles achieve more "dead right there" killin compared to rifles with slow twist. The most commonly held belief seems to be that the faster rotational speeds help expanding bullets to open faster and/or more reliably. The phenomenon has been commonly noted in two different scenarios:

1) Moderate power varmint rifles exploding prairie dog (and similar) varmints as effectively as higher power rifles in same caliber. Commonly stated that a fast twist 223 will explode prairie dogs like a 22-250.

2) Reliable expansion of mono metal bullets (like the Barnes) some times achieving the DRT effect of lightly built cup and core bullets. This would seemingly be the best of both worlds - cup and core style shock and awe combined with mono-metal penetration.

Cannot vouch for either. It's one of those things that's impossible to prove, so it needs to be argued about....

David

Las,

Google centrifugal force, and think about how that would apply to an expanding bullet as it penetrates through flesh, both in terms of expansion and fragmentation, and think of the additional damage that would cause in flesh.

This will likely get me into trouble (again

Bill Steigers of Bitterroot bullets did the fast twist testing years ago. For the times, his bullets were ahead of the curve in construction and very tough. Friends/customers did some of the testing with him,and of course they also shot a pile of them into animals.I have had a zillion conversations with Steigers on the subject.

Steigers proved to himself that a faster twist helps to expand tough,high velocity hunting bullets. It's a long leap from that to "increased killing power".But to the extent that more rapid and complete expansion creates a more severe wound channel I suppose the conclusion is not that far fetched,especially since we lose velocity with distance but rotational velocity remains pretty high.

In any event, Steigers bullets came with recommendation on the packaging for minimum velocity,and [b twist levels.[/b] Since Bitterroots were sort of a landmark bullet,and one of those responsible for flushing most of todays better known bonded bullets out of the bushes, I'd find his advice hard to ignore.

In any event, anyone who knows him will tell you that he knows a lot about BG bullets,and not theoretically either.

Anyhow, like someone said the "faster killing" may be hard to prove. I can tell you I have a couple of recovered 140 BBC's here recovered from game. Retained weight is about the same,one fired from a 280 with a 10 twist and the other from a 7 RM with a 9 twist....distances similar. Hold them both in your hand, and it isn't hard to tell which hit with more RPM's.

One old pundit said it better than I can,(and referring to the extreme example of a 110 gr. fired from a 300 Weatherby at 3900 fps). RPM's, he says, are 4550 times per second from a 10 twist (do your own math).....I edited the content for brevity but the gist is there:

"....cetrifugal energy...pulls the outer part of any rotating object away from its center,the axis it spins on........The centrifugal energy developed in our bullet rotating 4550 times a second is enormous. It would take about 2.5 minutes for an ordinary shop grinder to make as many revolutions as it does in a second. Every molecule in it is imbued with intense ambition to break loose and fly sideways. If it hits anything,that is exactly what it does..."

Turn your self over 3000-4000 times per second, your brains will fly out your ears.

Ever see a bullet destroy itself in mid air? What do we suppose does that? It isn't forward velocity (Hint)

Folks are right....we can argue about it, but you have to be a flat earther or carping skeptic to say it has no effect on bullet expansion at all.


Think about it.

Bob
All true.
I used to blow bullets up with the .460 that were designed for the .45/70.

The 400gn Speer with the paper thin jacket would often disappear in a puf of blue smoke before reaching to 100 yard target when driven at 2900fps.
John

John:

A friends brother used to load 90 gr HP's in a 264 Win Mag.drive them at max just for the purpose of letting us watch them disappear in a blue haze before they made it to the 100 yard target.

The rifling scored the thin jackets and all those rpm's just did the rest.Fun to watch.

I also understand that the target Bergers have tougher jackets than the hunting versions so they will withstand the high rotational forces of fast twists on rifles for LR shooting. Seems some versions would not make it to the target.

I think the same thing can happen to one extent or another (depending on the bullets construction) when an expanding bullet's jacket is compromised on impact with an animal.

I agree. Saw similar things happen when Barnes first introduced that zippy little 100gn X bullet in .270 about 20 or so years back. Introduced a new concept in entrance holes.
John

Partition-and be done with it !